Evidence for God from Science

I'm trying to figure out what I need to feel or get right in a sense to really have confidence that I actually have salvation.

One of the biggest worries I have is why do so many pastors who on one hand show lost people that there is nothing they can on their own to keep the law but once they get saved preach to them like they better do this and that, and keep from doing this or that sin in order to stay saved.

Now granted most don't come out and say that but they choose a sneaky way to say it such as they say to make sure you keep from sinning and do all the right things as evidence you have true saving faith. Isn't that just a sneaky way of saying that salvation really is by faith AND WORKS?

Plus I don't know how difficult it is for many of you, but even since coming to faith I still can't stop making mistakes. Even on good days when I don't commit hardly any physical sins, but I sin in my brain. In my view it's way more difficult to keep from sinning in your mind than it is acting out the sin. You know what I mean?

But getting back to the proper method of salvation, I'm going to lay out from the best of my ability from what I know my attempt to show you how I think a person gets truly saved, and let me know if this looks right enough to you. And this will be in the context of a "morally average or basically good LOST person" coming to Christ.

scene 1: (person a) Basically good lost person goes to church and hears about how morally good a person must be to enter heaven.

scene 2: person a learns that even their best efforts can't get them into heaven but learns that through trusting Christ they will be saved.

scene 3: person a prays and accepts Christ and starts believing that Christ will save them.

scene 4: Because the message of the cross, Christ's life and death, and the gift of salvation sinks deep into person a's mind and emotions they start and continue to gain such a love for Christ they start to love His commands and follows them much more and better and thus becomes an even better person morally than they were when they were lost.

Ok, now that I shown you all that, I want to focus on scene 4 a bit. Is that the proper mindset a believer should have? Because for me even while saved (as far as I know) I still find many of God's commands very difficult and very burdensome to do. I mean I know I should do them but in the situations I find myself I don't really understand. Like never be angry with anyone even in your thoughts. How can anyone a believer or non believer ever pull off such a task? Or by not lusting after a woman (if you are a man like me) How can anyone saved or unsaved pull that off the rest of their lives?

I really hope salvation doesn't work like a light switch where once someone truly receives salvation they become perfect and automatically live perfect lives. Because if that is the case than I'm certainly not saved.

And also if a person can lose his or her salvation where exactly is the tipping point? How "bad" does a former believer have to be in order to become unsaved again? Plus how about old people who develop memory and mental problems.

Or even formally healthy people who have a bad accident and severely injure their brains in such a way that they say and do things that on the surface look evil and sinful but at the same time those people can't control themselves? Do they go to hell because of their mental illness? I'm really having trouble with these issues. Please pray for me.

It sounds to me like you are either a new believer, or someone who has renewed his commitment to Christ. Either way, it's awesome! I can tell you have a lot of questions. In fact, you sound exactly like I did at one time.

There was a time when I felt like I was beginning to come to grips with the idea that God wasn't real. To put it bluntly, it sucked... The feeling of being alone when you feel as if you're loosing faith in God is a pain I don't wish on anyone. In desperation I prayed asking God to prove himself to me. My prayer was answered, although not in the exact way I was looking for. Without going into details, except to say that this site helped, my belief in God gradually was restored. My mood and nearly everything about my life was seeming to do better. Some days were better than others, but overall I felt much better knowing that God was real. There was a time though when I began to realize I still had a major problem. I began to think, "OK, so God is real but, am I on good terms with him?" Thus began the biggest step in my journey.

I began reading the Bible, starting with Matthew. As I'm sure you are well aware, there are some passages in the Bible that can be absolutely terrifying for someone who isn't sure of his position with his creator... I don't remember any individual verse that set it off, but I remember thinking that there isn't hardly a single thing that Christ says don't do that I haven't done. I did some research online, but that made it worse. There are some websites out there that have a very hellfire and brimstone attitude. I found many others that preached love and forgiveness, but I was afraid to put trust in those. "What if they're wrong?" I thought. There was a time when I honestly believed that if I died at that moment, there was a decent chance I would spend eternity in hell.

Here I was, with the happiness I found in my restored faith stripped away. I was now terrified of the God I had previously sought so earnestly to find. I found myself envious of my dog. "He doesn't have a soul, so he doesn't have to worry about all this" I thought. I wasn't really worried about what hell would be like. Whether it was a literally lake of fire, feeling the pain of my skin burning, or whether it was the panic and despair of being alone with my thoughts, it didn't matter much to me. What scared me about hell was that it would have no end. If someone dies a horrific death in this life, it has an end. At some point, the pain ends. That ceasing of pain gives even the most terrible circumstances a glimmer of hope. Without that ending, what comfort was there to be found? Some say that hell isn't a place of conscious torment, but that souls are annihilated and cease to exist. Others say that tormented souls are fully aware, and fully realize the terror from which they will know no escape. I wasn't sure which one I believed in. I was certain though, that since God wasn't there, I didn't want to be either.

I had many doubts about many things: Works VS faith, loosing salvation VS always saved, and sanctification being major issues. I began reading, praying, reading, praying, and doing it all over. I would get home from work, and spend 5 or 6 hours reading and praying trying to find answers. I spoke to a Baptist pastor, a Catholic brother, I read and prayed more than I ever have before. I was terrified that if I sinned too much again, Christ would say to me "Sorry, I gave you another chance and you threw it away."

After much prayer, reading, and some more prayer, I began to realize something. Christ isn't handing me a set of rules that I have to live by in order to earn/keep his love. The love is freely given, it only needs to be embraced. I had heard others use the word relationship, and now I began to realize what that meant. I felt my mood starting to lift, and I prayed a prayer that went something like this: "This really is a relationship, isn't it? You're not saying I'm going to do everything right. You're not saying I'm going to be perfect. You're saying you love me more than I can comprehend and you're here to teach me and help me grow. It's like a new husband and wife who take time to work out their relationship but because their love is real, it weathers all storms. You've pledged to love me always, and you'll never let me go again. Is this right? If it isn't please don't let me think it's right. I'm scared. Is this it? Is this the kind of relationship we're supposed to have?" I prayed that with the kind of attitude a child would have when he is scared of his father's reaction after the child has done something wrong. By the time I was finished with my prayer, I felt a kind of joy that is nearly impossible to describe. I realized in that moment, that Christ's love for me is real.

Since then, I have had my share of ups and downs. I had times when I doubted what happened that night, but for each doubt, there were many reassurances. Since then, I have come to believe the following things:

1. Christ has a love for you and I that we cannot even begin to understand. His love looks beyond who hurt who, and who was right and wrong. Christ thinks of you every day, and acts on those thoughts.

2. There is practically nothing that we have that we can give Christ that he needs or desires, with one exception: Our love. We show him love in many different ways, but I think simple things are often very powerful. Personally, I think it makes him happy when we take just a second to pause and say with a grateful heart, "Thank you". This thank you can be for a sunny day, a solution to a problem, or the love of your life laying her head on your shoulder. I think Christ is happy we thought of him. He certainly thinks of us.

3. Saying thank you is not the only way we show Christ our love. In fact, he tells us that when we show love to others we show it to him. It can be something as simple as being nice to someone who had a hard day, to donating the last dollar you had. The Bible gives us many guidelines and "ideas" for how to do this, but I think so long as you keep an eye out for opportunities, Christ will guide you if you ask.

4. As we grow in love and are guided by the Holy Spirit, we mature. Things that were once difficult are now as natural and commonplace to us as getting dressed in the morning. We still make mistakes. We even have periods of spiritual dryness. In every case though, we have the guiding influence of the Holy Spirit.

5. Faith and sin stand in contrast. Where one is practiced, the other is weakened. I do believe that if left up to ourselves we would sin enough to destroy our faith. However, I also believe that Christ won't let us. Let me say this again, I don't think that Christ is going to let anyone destroy what he has worked to hard to save. He paid far too high a price to let us go, ever. He even said he would come looking for us should we stray. He never promised to be "nice" in bringing us back home though. The Bible speaks of discipline, and I feel that's where my faith crisis came in. I had been living in such a way that caused me to nearly loose my faith. Christ brought me back, although he had to bring me to an emotional trainwreck to do it. Basically, Christ kicked my butt... I stand here as someone who can personally attest that Christ doesn't quit. He never backs down, he never grows weary, and he never gives up.

Cubeus, when you mentioned pastors who preach salvation is not by works, but then say "we must do this and that...",
It reminded me of this post by Canuckster1127(Bart) on "The Bait and Switch Gospel". I hope he won't mind my posting it here:

The Bait and Switch Gospel

It's probably happened to you sometime. You've responded to an ad and showed up at the store advertising an amazing deal. You were sold when you saw the ad and now that you've arrived you're looking forward to making your purchase but then, everything seems to change. The sales person hears what you're there for and quickly informs you that that item really isn't what you need at all. There's so many things wrong with it that the store would be embarrassed for you to leave with such a poor quality item. What you need is this more expensive and fancy item over here and before you know it, if you don't know better, you've left owning something very different than what was advertised and which you had no intention of buying when you initially came it.

It happens all the time at Car Dealerships, Appliance Store and Churches.

That's right! I said it. It happens at churches.How does it happen there you might ask? I'm glad you asked that friend! (Hey?! Why am I starting to sound like a salesman myself?!?)

Seriously though, it does happen more frequently than you might imagine, even at good Bible believing churches and it's done by people who are well-intentioned, even if misguided or misdirected.I call it, "The Bait and Switch Gospel."

Salvation is by grace and grace alone. That's the foundation of any relationship with God through Christ. This is practically a mantra repeated many times over in many churches and it's printed right there in the creeds or statements of faith, and yet many find after they've responded to this message of grace that the tone changes and over time, it becomes clear that there's much more needed in their lives than "just grace." In fact, there may even be a subtle contempt for those "greasy gracers", "hypergracers" and "easy-believism proponents" (I've actually been called that and worse on many occasions). Sometimes that attitude may take on some terms of their own, designed to make clear that however important grace is as a theory, when it comes right down to it, there's so much more that you need to be doing (key-word there).

Works are the fruit, not the root of that relationship with God. There's a difference in scripture between when it speaks of salvation and when it speaks of the "Kingdom of God." The confusion comes when salvation is confused with the Kingdom. Salvation is relational and it's an all or nothing prospect. You're either saved or you are not. Anything else is like being "a little bit pregnant." It's just absurd on the face of it, and yet there's something in the heart of many that just doesn't want to let the "good news" be too good.

In the context of the Kingdom of God; that future order where Christ rules upon a renewed earth, there is indication that some will receive more reward than others and works in that regard may play in. Even then, however, Jesus made it clear that it wasn't enough to do works for their own sake. We have to find the source of them in the right motives which are to center on two things, the love of God and the love of others. Jesus told his disciples when James and John and their mother came to him asking for special favor in the kingdom (note ... not salvation) that they didn't understand what they were asking for and then Jesus then rebuked them that having the goal of lording power and position over others was not a worthy motive. That's what pagans do. Jesus then went on to in other contexts preach the beatitudes and show that the Kingdom of God in many ways, runs upside down in terms of how the world's systems work.

I find, usually, the people who focus the most upon works and who seems the most emotionally invested in making sure that this whole "grace thing doesn't go too far" are responding to what Paul referred to as the scandal or the offense of the Gospel. People who think deep down, or want to believe that they are more righteous or have worked harder than others, want to be sure that other people know it and that they're going to get what is fair and coming to them in the end. That whole attitude appears to a great degree to determine whether their works in the end are going to be wood, hay and stubble or gold, silver and precious jewels. The same type of works are going to be in each pile. It's our heart attitude, motivation and love for others that makes the difference as to their quality and endurance. The irony is, the people who worry the least about trying to earn things for God and who are just doing things from the love that their grace relationship gives way too, are the ones whose works appear to be of greater value to the God who sees beyond the exterior right into our heart.

So have you encountered this "Bait and Switch Gospel"? Have you bought into it? Having come to Christ by Grace are you now being directed to focus upon works that find their foundation in things often dressed up to look more appealing like legalism, self-sufficiency or even "Lordship Salvation"? Peel back the sticker. Peer in the windows. Kick the tires a few times, and then ask yourself if you're being encouraged to pay a premium for what God has already provided to you freely. Shake the tree and see if the works are in the roots or in the fruits.

RickD wrote:Cubeus, when you mentioned pastors who preach salvation is not by works, but then say "we must do this and that...",
It reminded me of this post by Canuckster1127(Bart) on "The Bait and Switch Gospel".

Before it is declared a "Bait and Switch Gospel" or some other misnomer, one would have to first define what 'works' exactly mean that scripture says we ought not do. I have yet to hear a clear definition.

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:Cubeus, when you mentioned pastors who preach salvation is not by works, but then say "we must do this and that...",
It reminded me of this post by Canuckster1127(Bart) on "The Bait and Switch Gospel".

Before it is declared a "Bait and Switch Gospel" or some other misnomer, one would have to first define what 'works' exactly mean that scripture says we ought not do. I have yet to hear a clear definition.

Byblos, I don't see Bart saying that we "ought not do" works. Only that the works we do, are a result of the fruit:Galatians 5:22-23

New International Version (NIV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.

Not the reason for the fruit.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with in Bart's article. As we've been over this before, I thought you agreed that salvation is by God's Grace, through faith in Jesus Christ. I know some of us disagree about if certain sacraments are considered "works", when it comes to salvation, but I don't believe Bart(correct me if I'm wrong, Bart) is speaking of that.

RickD wrote:

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:Cubeus, when you mentioned pastors who preach salvation is not by works, but then say "we must do this and that...",
It reminded me of this post by Canuckster1127(Bart) on "The Bait and Switch Gospel".

Before it is declared a "Bait and Switch Gospel" or some other misnomer, one would have to first define what 'works' exactly mean that scripture says we ought not do. I have yet to hear a clear definition.

Byblos, I don't see Bart saying that we "ought not do" works. Only that the works we do, are a result of the fruit:Galatians 5:22-23

New International Version (NIV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.

Not the reason for the fruit.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with in Bart's article. As we've been over this before, I thought you agreed that salvation is by God's Grace, through faith in Jesus Christ. I know some of us disagree about if certain sacraments are considered "works", when it comes to salvation, but I don't believe Bart(correct me if I'm wrong, Bart) is speaking of that.

You misunderstand me Rick, I am not disagreeing at all that works play any part in salvation, they don't. It's just that whenever we toss the word 'works' around it means drastically different things to different people and that's where major confusions lie. I was simply wondering if there is a clear definition of what works really are we can all agree on (or at least not disagree vehemently ).

Byblos wrote:

I was simply wondering if there is a clear definition of what works really are we can all agree on (or at least not disagree vehemently ).

Pretty simple, but what about this?

works3rd person singular present, plural of work
Noun:
Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

So, in a salvation context, anything involving mental or physical effort done in order to gain or keep salvation. Other than belief in Jesus Christ. Or, would you consider the "belief" part, a work?

RickD wrote:Byblos wrote:

I was simply wondering if there is a clear definition of what works really are we can all agree on (or at least not disagree vehemently ).

Pretty simple, but what about this?

works3rd person singular present, plural of work
Noun:
Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

It it were only that simple. I'm not certain we can find this definition of 'work' anywhere in scripture. In fact any time works are mentioned they are in the context of works of the law, the mosaic law.

RickD wrote:So, in a salvation context, anything involving mental or physical effort done in order to gain or keep salvation. Other than belief in Jesus Christ. Or, would you consider the "belief" part, a work?

Lol Rick, I like how you interjected 'or keep' in there as well. I would not consider belief a work but it fits the definition you provided.

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:Byblos wrote:

I was simply wondering if there is a clear definition of what works really are we can all agree on (or at least not disagree vehemently ).

Pretty simple, but what about this?

works3rd person singular present, plural of work
Noun:
Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

It it were only that simple. I'm not certain we can find this definition of 'work' anywhere in scripture. In fact any time works are mentioned they are in the context of works of the law, the mosaic law.

RickD wrote:So, in a salvation context, anything involving mental or physical effort done in order to gain or keep salvation. Other than belief in Jesus Christ. Or, would you consider the "belief" part, a work?

Lol Rick, I like how you interjected 'or keep' in there as well. I would not consider belief a work but it fits the definition you provided.

Byblos, I said "gain or keep salvation", because that is the issue with the bait and switch gospel. Pastors claim works won't gain one salvation, but then the same pastors urge people to do works to keep salvation.
Post your definition of "works". I bet I would agree, more than disagree with it. I practically guarantee that I won't vehemently disagree with it.

One of the biggest worries I have is why do so many pastors who on one hand show lost people that there is nothing they can on their own to keep the law but once they get saved preach to them like they better do this and that, and keep from doing this or that sin in order to stay saved.

This is the issue of "Lordship Salvation." (LS) First let's make it clear that if Jesus isn't Lord, then He most certainly isn't savior. Jesus is Lord, whether I'm able to live up to a standard or not. So, opposing LS is not opposing Jesus as Lord. He is. But that is not what is meant by LS. LS says that your salvation is contingent in some form or fashion on what you do prior to faith or after faith. Let's first understand that "faith" as the Bible uses the word is not a work. (Rom. 4:5)
For example some LS proponents would say, "You need to repent, that is turn from and forsake your sin, and put your faith in Christ. Then you can receive His free gift." That is front door LS. This essentially says, you need to make an upfront committment to reform your life. Of course an unsaved person is dead in their sin, and can make no such committment.
What you describe could be called back door LS. In a nutshell, it's man's religion, and it comes cloaked in a lot of different names. But it basically says that you must live up to some sort of post-faith performance of works or fruit to either earn or confirm your salvation.
Both of these methods proof text verses, such as, "Pick up your cross and follow me." Verses that don't actually have to do with one's individual saving in today's economy, but instead have to do with one being a disciple. LS conflates the two.

There are a mulitude of verses (contextually) that support salvation by faith alone. And even LS proponents will try to say they are 'faith alone,' and heck I think they are convinced in their own mind they are. I can say that, because I was one of those for a long time. But they are not faith alone. Now I do believe that 'faith/belief/trust' is often misunderstood, and in the error manifest on both sides. On one it manifest in what we call 'easy believism.' Repeat this prayer (and mean it, really mean it), walk the isle, get baptized, etc. All of them involve some little act that is in fact is a substitue for proper faith. But the bible has already established that believing is not a doing, not in the active sense.

Imagine this scenario. You fall in a well. You realize you are helpless and can not get out. Someone comes along. They say, I need you to trust me. I'm going to throw in a harness, put it around your torso and I will lift you to saftey. So the person get's the rope, throws in the harness, and lifts you to safety. Now imagine the local news crew comes up and asks, "how were you saved?" And you say, "I saved myself. I put on the harness, and that is how I was saved." Everyone would know you are a nut. The passive response (putting on the harness) was necessary, but the saving was the active response of who provided the means and power to pull you from the pit. It's not a perfect analogy, and no analogy is. But belief could be better described as a passive response, which we can take no credit for. Now also imagine if the rescuer said, OK, you now have to go and do some things that prove to other people you were rescued, otherwise you aren't really rescued. If you don't, are you any less rescued? Should you be grateful? Yes. Should your rescue change your life? Sure. Will it? I think there is a great chance it will, but your lack of change doesn't determine whether you trusted that rescuer.

The rescuer didn't say, "OK, i'll throw you the harness, if you'll do this, this and this, after I pull you out." Or, if he said, "I'll pull you out, but first you need to stop cussing and surrender your finances to me." If you did, then you are contributing to your salvation, because you have now negotiated terms based on your level of performance. You are in fact saving yourself by setting a wage.

scene 1: (person a) Basically good lost person goes to church and hears about how morally good a person must be to enter heaven.

An unsaved person doesn't have to go to a congregational church or religious institution.

scene 2: person a learns that even their best efforts can't get them into heaven but learns that through trusting Christ they will be saved.

This is essentially true. A person's knowledge of their need of saving is paramount. Otherwise why would anyone trust Christ as savior?
All have sinned and fall short of God's glorious standard. (Rom. 3:23)

scene 3: person a prays and accepts Christ and starts believing that Christ will save them.

A person can pray but that doesn't mean they are entrusting themselves to Christ. The question here is what is saving faith?

scene 4: Because the message of the cross, Christ's life and death, and the gift of salvation sinks deep into person a's mind and emotions they start and continue to gain such a love for Christ they start to love His commands and follows them much more and better and thus becomes an even better person morally than they were when they were lost.

I would say the message of the cross, Christ's life and death and gift must sink in, in some sense, to be saved. It is afterall what we are placing our faith in. This reveals one's need of saving, and the means of being saved, which is trusting in just that; His message, life, death and gift. Once a person is "In Christ" they are a 'better' person. They are blessed with every spiritual blessing. They are sealed with a promise, and about 50 other things I could list. But does that mean their moral performance hence forth will save them? LS looks at a standard and says you have to live up to it, or else. Grace realizes a standard already there, and seeks to live out of it.

I really hope salvation doesn't work like a light switch where once someone truly receives salvation they become perfect and automatically live perfect lives. Because if that is the case than I'm certainly not saved.

If that is the case then neither is anyone here.

Isn't that just a sneaky way of saying that salvation really is by faith AND WORKS?

Your perception is ABSOLUTELEY correct. Different groups try and work around this like saying that a 'genuine' believer will produce works. Should a believer produce works? Yes. Can they? Yes. Because they are a new creature in Christ, they can and should. Must they? And if they must, how much? And if they don't, then what?

Byblos wrote:Before it is declared a "Bait and Switch Gospel" or some other misnomer, one would have to first define what 'works' exactly mean that scripture says we ought not do. I have yet to hear a clear definition.

Byblos,
What exactly is prohibiting you from providing a definition?

I'm not certain we can find this definition of 'work' anywhere in scripture. In fact any time works are mentioned they are in the context of works of the law, the mosaic law.

Would you say this applies to works as used in Eph. 2:10?

RickD wrote:Byblos, I said "gain or keep salvation", because that is the issue with the bait and switch gospel. Pastors claim works won't gain one salvation, but then the same pastors urge people to do works to keep salvation.
Post your definition of "works". I bet I would agree, more than disagree with it. I practically guarantee that I won't vehemently disagree with it.

You're probably right (about us more agreeing than disagreeing). As for my definition, I will only say that I make a distinction between works of the law (done in the spirit of the law, i.e. without regard to grace) and works of love and charity (done in the spirit of grace). I think we've derailed the thread enough though (apologies to the OP).

Going back to addressing the issue of doubt, having doubt in and of itself is not the problem per se for whenever we look inwardly, doubt is by definition part and parcel of our sinful nature. It is by looking to God's promise where our assurance can never be doubted.

Cubeus,

I apologize. I didn't mean to derail your thread. I started a new thread, continuing what Byblos and I were talking about in regards to the definition of "Works".

cubeus19 wrote:I'm trying to figure out what I need to feel or get right in a sense to really have confidence that I actually have salvation.

One of the biggest worries I have is why do so many pastors who on one hand show lost people that there is nothing they can on their own to keep the law but once they get saved preach to them like they better do this and that, and keep from doing this or that sin in order to stay saved.

Now granted most don't come out and say that but they choose a sneaky way to say it such as they say to make sure you keep from sinning and do all the right things as evidence you have true saving faith. Isn't that just a sneaky way of saying that salvation really is by faith AND WORKS?

Plus I don't know how difficult it is for many of you, but even since coming to faith I still can't stop making mistakes. Even on good days when I don't commit hardly any physical sins, but I sin in my brain. In my view it's way more difficult to keep from sinning in your mind than it is acting out the sin. You know what I mean?

But getting back to the proper method of salvation, I'm going to lay out from the best of my ability from what I know my attempt to show you how I think a person gets truly saved, and let me know if this looks right enough to you. And this will be in the context of a "morally average or basically good LOST person" coming to Christ.

scene 1: (person a) Basically good lost person goes to church and hears about how morally good a person must be to enter heaven.

scene 2: person a learns that even their best efforts can't get them into heaven but learns that through trusting Christ they will be saved.

scene 3: person a prays and accepts Christ and starts believing that Christ will save them.

scene 4: Because the message of the cross, Christ's life and death, and the gift of salvation sinks deep into person a's mind and emotions they start and continue to gain such a love for Christ they start to love His commands and follows them much more and better and thus becomes an even better person morally than they were when they were lost.

Ok, now that I shown you all that, I want to focus on scene 4 a bit. Is that the proper mindset a believer should have? Because for me even while saved (as far as I know) I still find many of God's commands very difficult and very burdensome to do. I mean I know I should do them but in the situations I find myself I don't really understand. Like never be angry with anyone even in your thoughts. How can anyone a believer or non believer ever pull off such a task? Or by not lusting after a woman (if you are a man like me) How can anyone saved or unsaved pull that off the rest of their lives?

I really hope salvation doesn't work like a light switch where once someone truly receives salvation they become perfect and automatically live perfect lives. Because if that is the case than I'm certainly not saved.

And also if a person can lose his or her salvation where exactly is the tipping point? How "bad" does a former believer have to be in order to become unsaved again? Plus how about old people who develop memory and mental problems.

Or even formally healthy people who have a bad accident and severely injure their brains in such a way that they say and do things that on the surface look evil and sinful but at the same time those people can't control themselves? Do they go to hell because of their mental illness? I'm really having trouble with these issues. Please pray for me.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

I believe this with all my heart. The problem is most Christens today never take their salvation to the next level, getting to know GOD. Study GODS word, talk to GOD, Pray for GOD to fill you with his Holy Spirit. When I pray to God 1st I prays him for being such a loving Father, then I ask him to help me if I am having problems with certain sins. I ask GOD to heal me if I’m sick, I thank GOD for JESUS who paid for my sins. Remember everybody sins, that will happen as long as we are in these flesh bodies. Getting to the point were one stops having doubts about one’s salvation. That takes a good relationship with your LORD.

Ephesians 6:11-17
11 Put on the whole armor of God that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God that ye may be able to withstanding the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14Standtherefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Romans 10:17
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Thank you all, that helped immensely. I especially like the responses I got from both Jestes and Jlay. They both really spoke to the utter depths of what I was feeling and they helped clear a lot of things up. So thank you all deeply for helping me with this. God bless you all.

Cubeaus,

I know you got a ton of information, but I wanted to just give you some simple advice.

Just honestly do your best. You are not perfect.

On the subject of lusting after women, I identify with you along with that struggle. I am not justifying the action of it, but are you REALLY lusting? Or do you just appreciate the beauty of women?

I categorize lusting as literally the pursuit of physical attraction. Undressing them with your eyes and fantacizing about them in perverted ways.

While, appreciating beauty is merely acknowledging they are attractive. For example, they have a pretty face, they have nice curves, and even inner beauty like their humbleness, gentleness, etc.