Evidence for God from Science

Thanks to research to a question by Danieltwotwenty, I went on AnswersinGenesis.org website again. Every time I read another of their articles. I just shake my head. Here's something I read from an article by Ken Ham:

Compromising Christian leaders need to give up not only biological evolution, but geological and cosmological evolution (i.e., billions of years). I call on Christians everywhere to shut the door to this compromise that is undermining the church and culture. Indeed, we are seeing the collapse of biblical Christianity in the West as scriptural authority is questioned.

The idea of millions of years is like a disease in the church; biological evolution is just a symptom. Your support of AiG, with God’s blessing, will help prevent the disease from spreading further.

Here's the link:http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... s-of-years

This quote is great:

The idea of millions of years is like a disease in the church; biological evolution is just a symptom. Your support of AiG, with God’s blessing, will help prevent the disease from spreading further.

So, if we all give to AnswersinGenesis, maybe Christians will stop believing in the "diseases" of Old Earth Creationism, and Theistic Evolution.

Any comments?

RickD wrote: Any comments?

All the world be saved, lions no longer eat meat, the sky will be blue, heaven on earth and bliss... if but all accept a little Ham...

I thought salvation came thru Christ's work alone?
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RickD wrote:Thanks to research to a question by Danieltwotwenty, I went on AnswersinGenesis.org website again. Every time I read another of their articles. I just shake my head. Here's something I read from an article by Ken Ham:

Compromising Christian leaders need to give up not only biological evolution, but geological and cosmological evolution (i.e., billions of years). I call on Christians everywhere to shut the door to this compromise that is undermining the church and culture. Indeed, we are seeing the collapse of biblical Christianity in the West as scriptural authority is questioned.

The idea of millions of years is like a disease in the church; biological evolution is just a symptom. Your support of AiG, with God’s blessing, will help prevent the disease from spreading further.

Here's the link:http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... s-of-years

This quote is great:

The idea of millions of years is like a disease in the church; biological evolution is just a symptom. Your support of AiG, with God’s blessing, will help prevent the disease from spreading further.

So, if we all give to AnswersinGenesis, maybe Christians will stop believing in the "diseases" of Old Earth Creationism, and Theistic Evolution.

Any comments?

Don't even get me started
YECs have already closed the doors (their heads) to anything old-earth related. In fact, someone I debated was close-minded enough to say no matter how much evidence I presented, Biblical or otherwise, would not be enough to sway their minds. An article by Stephanie Simon Feb 27, 2006 issue of the Los Angeles Times illustrates this issue very nicely:

Evangelist Ken Ham smiled at the 2,300 elementary students packed into pews, their faces rapt. With puppets and cartoons, he was showing them how to reject geology, paleontology, and evolutionary biology as a sinister tangle of lies.
If a teacher mentions evolution, or the Big Bang, or an era when dinosaurs ruled Earth, Ham said, "You put your hand up and you say, 'Excuse me, were you there?' Can you remember that?"
The children roared their assent.
"Sometimes people will answer, 'No, but you weren't there either.'" Ham told them. "Then you say, 'No, I wasn't, but I know someone who was, and I have this book about the history of the world.'"
He waved his Bible in the air.
"Who's the only one who's always been there?" Ham asked.
"God!" the boys and girls shouted.
"Who's the only one who knows everything?"
"God!"
"So who should you always trust, God or the scientists?"
"The children answered with a thundering: "God!"

If OEC/TE is a disease, then YEC is the plague!

B. W. wrote:

RickD wrote: Any comments?

All the world be saved, lions no longer eat meat, the sky will be blue, heaven on earth and bliss... if but all accept a little Ham...

I thought salvation came thru Christ's work alone?
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B.W., salvation does come through Christ's work alone. As long as it's Ken Ham's Yec interpretation of Christ's work, silly.

Evangelist Ken Ham smiled at the 2,300 elementary students packed into pews, their faces rapt. With puppets and cartoons, he was showing them how to reject geology, paleontology, and evolutionary biology as a sinister tangle of lies.
If a teacher mentions evolution, or the Big Bang, or an era when dinosaurs ruled Earth, Ham said, "You put your hand up and you say, 'Excuse me, were you there?' Can you remember that?"
The children roared their assent.
"Sometimes people will answer, 'No, but you weren't there either.'" Ham told them. "Then you say, 'No, I wasn't, but I know someone who was, and I have this book about the history of the world.'"
He waved his Bible in the air.
"Who's the only one who's always been there?" Ham asked.
"God!" the boys and girls shouted.
"Who's the only one who knows everything?"
"God!"
"So who should you always trust, God or the scientists?"
"The children answered with a thundering: "God!"

And the quiet child in the back shouted, "Don't you mean God, and Ken Ham?"

RickD wrote:

Evangelist Ken Ham smiled at the 2,300 elementary students packed into pews, their faces rapt. With puppets and cartoons, he was showing them how to reject geology, paleontology, and evolutionary biology as a sinister tangle of lies.
If a teacher mentions evolution, or the Big Bang, or an era when dinosaurs ruled Earth, Ham said, "You put your hand up and you say, 'Excuse me, were you there?' Can you remember that?"
The children roared their assent.
"Sometimes people will answer, 'No, but you weren't there either.'" Ham told them. "Then you say, 'No, I wasn't, but I know someone who was, and I have this book about the history of the world.'"
He waved his Bible in the air.
"Who's the only one who's always been there?" Ham asked.
"God!" the boys and girls shouted.
"Who's the only one who knows everything?"
"God!"
"So who should you always trust, God or the scientists?"
"The children answered with a thundering: "God!"

And the quiet child in the back shouted, "Don't you mean God, and Ken Ham?"

YECs frequently parade around their arguments like they're upholding the Word of God, and defending the church from what they call 'compromise'. It's this sort of arrogant self-righteousness that really gets me on my nerves. Many encounters I've had with the more serious types tend to be arrogant, self-righteous, mocking, eager-to-point-out-every-tiny-blunder/unrelenting (while their blunders come in the masses), prejudiced, cantankerous, bigoted, and headstrong. Not saying all YECs are like that - there are many YECs I have encountered who are quite tolerant and polite. But I'm talking about the really stubborn ones.
Thanks to them, the secular world resists Christianity more than ever. YECs are so loud and persistent in their proclamation that you cannot believe in an Old Earth and hold to an innerant Bible, they have successfully provoked scientists into viewing us Christians as a bunch of nasties. We can only thank YECism for that.

Thanks to them, the secular world resists Christianity more than ever. YECs are so loud and persistent in their proclamation that you cannot believe in an Old Earth and hold to an innerant Bible, they have successfully provoked scientists into viewing us Christians as a bunch of nasties. We can only thank YECism for that.

So, it's not the "compromising" Old Earth Creationists, that are driving people from the church in droves. It's the dogmatic YEC(not saying all YECs) that is saying that people who realize an ancient creation is real, have to choose between an ancient creation, and their faith. Because according to these dogmatic YECs, there is no room in scripture for an Old Earth interpretation. So, these(mostly college age?) Christians, who see the evidence of an ancient earth from their studies, and see the dogmatic YEC claim that the bible says the earth must be young, are only doing what is logical to them. Throwing away a bible(and therefore a faith) that they know isn't in harmony with the evidence that they see in nature. Ken Ham, et.al. will have to answer to God, for driving people away from the only God who is worthy of their worship. The same God who inspired the bible, and created nature.

RickD wrote: So, it's not the "compromising" Old Earth Creationists, that are driving people from the church in droves. It's the dogmatic YEC(not saying all YECs) that is saying that people who realize an ancient creation is real, have to choose between an ancient creation, and their faith. Because according to these dogmatic YECs, there is no room in scripture for an Old Earth interpretation. So, these(mostly college age?) Christians, who see the evidence of an ancient earth from their studies, and see the dogmatic YEC claim that the bible says the earth must be young, are only doing what is logical to them. Throwing away a bible(and therefore a faith) that they know isn't in harmony with the evidence that they see in nature. Ken Ham, et.al. will have to answer to God, for driving people away from the only God who is worthy of their worship. The same God who inspired the bible, and created nature.

Exactly. Yet they say we're the ones driving people away from Christ!
Their interpretation of 'Man's faulty ideas vs. God's innerant Word' is so ridiculous I laugh every time I see it Yes, because everyone knows YECs uphold the true Word of God against the compromisers! lol...

During a debate I brought up the fact that YECs are ruining Christ's reputation. The opponent told me that I was wrong, and shouldn't be conforming to the world's ways just because they don't like YECs. However, I pointed out that the way YECs argue (Duane Gish and Kent Hovind are the worst I know of) coupled with their piranha-like attitude and hatred of mainstream science makes them look absurd and makes people withdraw from them (well-known YECs use this tactic in debates to 'win'). Many YECs have been downright deceptive, and been caught at it too. Still, YECs insist the reason for secular scientists not debating them is because they're 'afraid'. (snort).

Their interpretation of 'Man's faulty ideas vs. God's innerant Word' is so ridiculous I laugh every time I see it Yes, because everyone knows YECs uphold the true Word of God against the compromisers! lol...

During a debate I brought up the fact that YECs are ruining Christ's reputation. The opponent told me that I was wrong, and shouldn't be conforming to the world's ways just because they don't like YECs. However, I pointed out that the way YECs argue (Duane Gish and Kent Hovind are the worst I know of) coupled with their piranha-like attitude and hatred of mainstream science makes them look absurd and makes people withdraw from them (well-known YECs use this tactic in debates to 'win'). Many YECs have been downright deceptive, and been caught at it too. Still, YECs insist the reason for secular scientists not debating them is because they're 'afraid'. (snort).

I know, because you've said it yourself, and I have, as well, that it's not ALL YECs that we are referring to here, so people won't think we're lumping all YECs into the same pile as the specific one's we've mentioned. But, as far as the more dogmatic, and vocal type, I've also seen what you're saying above. The dishonesty with the way some YECs portray OEC, and TE, infuriates me. They build up a straw man, and argue against it. Even after they are told what OECs don't believe.

RickD wrote: I know, because you've said it yourself, and I have, as well, that it's not ALL YECs that we are referring to here, so people won't think we're lumping all YECs into the same pile as the specific one's we've mentioned. But, as far as the more dogmatic, and vocal type, I've also seen what you're saying above. The dishonesty with the way some YECs portray OEC, and TE, infuriates me. They build up a straw man, and argue against it. Even after they are told what OECs don't believe.

I know. They (some YECs) keep repeating their arguments that have been disproven long ago. In his book Evolution, What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters, Donald R. Prothero (professor of geology and member of the Paleontological society) discusses his public debate with YEC Duane Gish. He states that Gish was so close-minded he kept repeating statements that Prothero had just rebutted moments before. He kept quoting out of context and outdated works as far back as the 1950s, getting his information on dinosaurs from childrens books (and even then getting the facts wrong) and running on for 45 minutes or an hour, spewing torrents of error that the evolutionist hasn't a hope of refuting in the format of a debate. This approach is also known as the Gish Gallop.
Yet Answers in Genesis still considers him a hero.....

Phew, I guess I got the wrong impression of the site from the discussions a few weeks ago. Glad to see the majority isn't fundamentalist YEC's. I am curious, why do YEC's believe the things they do? I have looked through the Bible and can't seem to find anything that points to <10,000 year old earth...

Pierson5 wrote:Phew, I guess I got the wrong impression of the site from the discussions a few weeks ago. Glad to see the majority isn't fundamentalist YEC's. I am curious, why do YEC's believe the things they do? I have looked through the Bible and can't seem to find anything that points to <10,000 year old earth...

They get their calculations (and it's 6,000 years old now, actually) by counting the geneologies from Adam to Jesus. However, the geneologies were most likely telescoped, skipping several generations and only including important characters. Several gaps between generations have been observed.

Calum wrote:

Pierson5 wrote:Phew, I guess I got the wrong impression of the site from the discussions a few weeks ago. Glad to see the majority isn't fundamentalist YEC's. I am curious, why do YEC's believe the things they do? I have looked through the Bible and can't seem to find anything that points to <10,000 year old earth...

They get their calculations (and it's 6,000 years old now, actually) by counting the geneologies from Adam to Jesus. However, the geneologies were most likely telescoped, skipping several generations and only including important characters. Several gaps between generations have been observed.

Ahah, clever. Thanks Calum.

Pierson5 wrote:

Calum wrote:

Pierson5 wrote:Phew, I guess I got the wrong impression of the site from the discussions a few weeks ago. Glad to see the majority isn't fundamentalist YEC's. I am curious, why do YEC's believe the things they do? I have looked through the Bible and can't seem to find anything that points to <10,000 year old earth...

They get their calculations (and it's 6,000 years old now, actually) by counting the geneologies from Adam to Jesus. However, the geneologies were most likely telescoped, skipping several generations and only including important characters. Several gaps between generations have been observed.

Ahah, clever. Thanks Calum.

Hahaha, I love that Family Guy episode when they're talking about the different cultures and ethnicities with The More You Know. But I know that's off topic

I never seen so much hate towards a person from a group of Christians. Just because he believes in a Young earth really doesn't give anyone a right to judge him. This works the same the other way as well. You are missing the main point of Christianity and you are distracted by a simple means of creation. I just don't understand it...So much hostility here and it's making me mad...