Evidence for God from Science

By "Christian Fiction", I am talking about all of those TV shows, movies, books, video games, and other forms of storytelling today that have Christian themes and try to show the Christian message. (Such as Narnia.)

What do you think about these stories? Do you enjoy when they try to show the Christian message or when Christians are portrayed positively? (I personally love the badass priest characters in movies, such as the priests from Priest. Yes, there is actually a movie called Priest with a bunch of vampire-killing kung-fu priests called priests. They have shurikens in the shape of crosses.) Are there any Christian books/movies/games/comics/whatever that you enjoy? Are there any movies/video games/tv shows/books/comics that you think have a Christian theme, even though they might not appear so or widely believed to?

Discuss.

I think you can find the influence of Christianity in almost any Western film/book/show/comic. I enjoy a number of "Christian fiction" as well as a good number of mainstream works by Christians. It seems like the higher quality fiction with a Christian message tend to be considered "mainstream" while (unfortunately) a lot of what's more formally labelled Christian fiction is subpar.

But some examples of Christian fiction that I enjoy- CS Lewis' works are almost a must if you're interested in Christian fiction. Of course The Chronicles of Narnia are his most famous, but his Space Trilogy (or at least the first two of the trilogy) are probably at least on the level of Narnia. Til We Have Faces is one of his lesser known works, but I (like Lewis himself) consider it to be possibly his best and most mature work of fiction. I love Tolkien as well, although that isn't as allegorical and maybe not explicitly Christian. If you look, however, you can see that it is basically a Catholic work. In fact, reading Aquinas and the works of some other important Catholic figures actually helped me to see some things in Tolkien's works (The Lord of the Rings and related works) that I hadn't noticed before.

Others would be MacDonald, Chesterton. The great Russian novelists, Dostoevsky in particular. I've heard skeptics state that The Brothers Karamov presents the most compelling case for theism that they've ever heard. Of course, many of the greatest literary works from the 17-19th centuries (and medieval poetry as another example) were written by Christians with a message that fit in well with Christianity, but they still might not be considered Christian fiction.

As far as modern stuff goes, I've read a lot of Ted Dekker and like Peretti. Way too many Amish love stories and not much else being offered by Christian authors, unfortunately.

As far as movies/games/comics, there's less in that regard. Some older movies have what could be considered Christian messages, some in particular are favorites of Catholics. Some of Hitchcock's works, for example. "I Confess". La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc. Some of the epics are a lot of fun, The Ten Commandments and Ben Hur. I love It's a Wonderful Life. Andrei Tarkovsky is considered to be one of the best directors of all time and put heavy emphasis on metaphysical and Christian themes.

Currently, well, the popular Christian films today are ok for what they are. Terrence Malick is a director that appeals heavily to the artistic crowd, but if a Christian who is interested in art wants to see The Tree of Life all I can say is that its well worth it. Its a rumination on the nature of nature and grace and faith.

I've found that some of the more interesting current Christian stuff is children's fiction, like Veggietales. Veggietales is just a really good show.

Do you know what - and this may shock some people - but ironically I find that the Harry Potter series has incredibly strong Christian Themes throughout. The core value in the book is love and good triumphing over evil - through sacrifice. In fact it is clear - certainly in the last book - that the power of love is the greatest power of all and Harry's willingness to to die for his friends in fact save his friends from evil.

John 15:13

Contraversial??....

Spoilers below.


I liked Harry Potter. The books more than the movies.


When he "dies", doesn't he go to " the King's Crossing"? I'd agree there are a lot of Christian metaphors there.

narnia4 wrote:I'd agree there are a lot of Christian metaphors there.

Possibly... But I also notice other potentially metaphoric persons/events/etc...

- Slytherins could symbolize White nationalists due to their reluctancy to recruit new members that don't come from "pure" families. Besides, the Malfoys are blond-haired, and blue-eyed as well, if I remember it right.
- Harry was different than most of his peers, and he came out of the closet (literally) to join Hogwarts. Coincidence?

One thing is for sure, Harry Potter series is definitely not a superficial story.

Silvertusk wrote:Do you know what - and this may shock some people - but ironically I find that the Harry Potter series has incredibly strong Christian Themes throughout. The core value in the book is love and good triumphing over evil - through sacrifice. In fact it is clear - certainly in the last book - that the power of love is the greatest power of all and Harry's willingness to to die for his friends in fact save his friends from evil.

John 15:13

Contraversial??....

I think that Harry Potter has strong Christian Themes too, and I always thought that. I also think that Lord Voldemort represented Satan, but you could say that about a very good majority of villains. The idea that it's about homosexuality was ridiculous to me, though. If it was about homosexualty, he wouldn't be paying so much attention to Cho Chang and he wouldn't eventually (spoiler) marry Ginny Weasley. Also, he's different from everybody because he's the chosen one and survived an attack by Lord Voldemort, and most fantasy stories have some aspect of that. I'm sorry if I spoiled it for you, but it's Harry Potter. You're bound to have it spoiled if you're on the internet.

As for games, the two games that I can think of that have Christian themes are Bioshock & Bioshock 2 and Dante's Inferno. The latter is one of my favorite games and based after the first book of the Divine Comedy, so of course it will have a Christian message.

narnia4 wrote: Others would be MacDonald, Chesterton. The great Russian novelists, Dostoevsky in particular. I've heard skeptics state that The Brothers Karamov presents the most compelling case for theism that they've ever heard. Of course, many of the greatest literary works from the 17-19th centuries (and medieval poetry as another example) were written by Christians with a message that fit in well with Christianity, but they still might not be considered Christian fiction.

As far as modern stuff goes, I've read a lot of Ted Dekker and like Peretti. Way too many Amish love stories and not much else being offered by Christian authors, unfortunately.


I've found that some of the more interesting current Christian stuff is children's fiction, like Veggietales. Veggietales is just a really good show.

Ah VeggieTales ... it came after I was too old for it. By that time I was volunteering at the summer vacation bible school, not participating in it! (Or, it didn't become popular until after I was too old for it... I'm not sure when it started. But yeah.)

Also need to read Dostoevsky - badly.

Speaking of VeggieTales:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP2dAf3D ... ure=colike

This made me laugh so hard.

Veggietales is just a really good show.

The bunny, the bunny, ooh I want the bunny.

How do you show Christian themes in movies, such as Harry Potter, to someone? My dad is cautious and uneasy about that stuff. He thinks that because the movie involves magic, that it automatically has an evil theme and that it should be avoided. ( Yet he watched the Disney movie, Mulan, with me and it has a talking dragon and an obviously different religion )

I've seen religious undertones and references in many films, and even video games.

In terms of films, m all-time favorite is "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" Here are a few moments heavily influenced by Christianity:
The Baptism (not so spoiler-y): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDXJ6duyQ_A
Ending (SPOILERS): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTIrHBzTyks

The film has plenty of Southern spirituals from the good ol' days, which I think are worth mentioning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeKnZnrGhLg "I Am Weary, Let Me Rest"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_M65lcDk6o "Angel Band"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdRdqp4N3Jw "I'll Fly Away"

Even in the video game Red Dead Redemption there are some religious elements.
This is who many people presume to be God or The Angel of Dearth (SPOILERS): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsF4azS5m6s

Tina wrote:How do you show Christian themes in movies, such as Harry Potter, to someone? My dad is cautious and uneasy about that stuff. He thinks that because the movie involves magic, that it automatically has an evil theme and that it should be avoided. ( Yet he watched the Disney movie, Mulan, with me and it has a talking dragon and an obviously different religion )

Does your father enjoy The Lord of the Rings? Or The Chronicles of Narnia? Those had some magic in them. I'd be more wary of 'sorcery' or 'black magic' to be honest.

Recently, I decided to write a Christian novel for Young Adults and I was wondering what you guys thought about it. The story is basically about a group of teenagers (target audience) who are charged with a mission to destory a Satanic influence in Seattle (the city where it is set) with the help of their guardian angels. The gaurdian angels in this book are historical figures (who were Christians) that have decided to reject heaven in exchange for becoming angels and serving people who serve God. Some of the angels include C.S. Lewis, John Newton (former captain of a slave ship who became a leading abolitionist after converting and writing "Amazing Grace"), Constantine the Great, Richard the Lionheart, King Arthur, Lord Baden Powell (founder of Boy Scouts of America), Mother Teresa, and Martin Luther King Jr. (The last two help missionaries and humanitarians and are not visited in the story because I can not see them in any militaristic purpose.) I'm going to have to sort out which character gets who, but I know that an atheist character is going to recieve C.S. Lewis and the main character is going to recieve either Constantine or Richard the Lionheart. There is also a conflict between the abominables (like the Gauridan Angels, some of the worst people in history such as Ghengis Kahn, Nero, Hernan Cortez, Saloth Sar, Osama Bin Laden, Hannibal, Edward Teach, Josef Stalin, Atilla the Hun, Boudica, Jack the Ripper, and Adolf Hitler have become demons ruling hell) and Satan's original fallen angels/monsters. They are both equally evil and seek to destroy God's kingdom and influence on Earth so they can rule: with Satan using sin to lead people away from God and the Abominables using destruction and continuing to influence thieves, murderers, and dictators.

The only problem that I was thinking is that it might give people misrepresentations of Christianity. The book I was thinking of has many aspects of Greek Mythology in it, such as furies, Charon, King Minos, and Cerberus in Hell (like in the Divine Comedy) and a few monsters and figures (like Odysseus and Helen), but that's about it. I was also afraid that people who read this book will begin to associate Christianity with grotesque demons, pagan mythologies, sword fights, large scale battles, direct revelation as proof (I was thinking an angel could say something about how finding God intellectually is easy, listing a bunch of aplogists, and saying that denial of god is really a moral rejection), fights between historical figures, powerful holy powers, and gaurdian angels. Some people might even read it and think if they become Christians, then they will recieve a gaurdian angel that they can see and kill demons with and might think that the plotline is a cheap evangealism tool.

What do you think? Should write this book?

If you want my honest opinion, as a fellow writer, I would say if you want to write something, go ahead and write it! It doesn't have to be marketable or anything to be worth writing.

Though if I were to make a suggestion, including real historical figures may be a bad idea. Especially when you invoke rather black and white "totally good or totally evil" characterizations of each person. Clearly some are easy to label that way, but most people are not.

I mean, Constantine was the first christian emperor of Rome, so in the eyes of a Christian he is important and great, but he also led quite a few wars of conquest for power, fame, personal pride, and so on...which are mostly overshadowed by the fact that he had such a major role in spreading Christianity. Genghis Khan, while a brutal conqueror himself, is a hero in Mongolia and is credited with a number of political, economic, and social advances, and as one of the few great leaders of his time to accept people of different religions and nationalities than himself. Many historians would say his image is exaggerated by written accounts from rival countries. The modern-day view of Edward Teach is likely also a little different from the public perception at the time, when pirates and privateers were not necessarily viewed as evil tyrants of the sea.

I think you'll find that many historical figures had different sides to them and so bringing in people like that can be dangerous. You might also find it difficult to replicate their personalities well, and might wind up making up your own "versions" of them to fit your story...and that can kind of defeat the purpose of using those people altogether.

But that's just my two cents haha...

Ivellious wrote:If you want my honest opinion, as a fellow writer, I would say if you want to write something, go ahead and write it! It doesn't have to be marketable or anything to be worth writing.

Though if I were to make a suggestion, including real historical figures may be a bad idea. Especially when you invoke rather black and white "totally good or totally evil" characterizations of each person. Clearly some are easy to label that way, but most people are not.

I mean, Constantine was the first christian emperor of Rome, so in the eyes of a Christian he is important and great, but he also led quite a few wars of conquest for power, fame, personal pride, and so on...which are mostly overshadowed by the fact that he had such a major role in spreading Christianity. Genghis Khan, while a brutal conqueror himself, is a hero in Mongolia and is credited with a number of political, economic, and social advances, and as one of the few great leaders of his time to accept people of different religions and nationalities than himself. Many historians would say his image is exaggerated by written accounts from rival countries. The modern-day view of Edward Teach is likely also a little different from the public perception at the time, when pirates and privateers were not necessarily viewed as evil tyrants of the sea.

I think you'll find that many historical figures had different sides to them and so bringing in people like that can be dangerous. You might also find it difficult to replicate their personalities well, and might wind up making up your own "versions" of them to fit your story...and that can kind of defeat the purpose of using those people altogether.

But that's just my two cents haha...

Thanks for your input. I guess I'm gongto try and focus less on "black and white" settings for the figure's morality. I guess I could have the excuse that they have turned into angels/demons. When talking to one of my friends, he also objected to me using Al Capone as one of the villains because he had standards, would never kill a woman or child, and was very religious. He also warned against using anybody from the American Civil War and suggested that it should be a graphic novel because of the imagery at some parts (not describing here, it's disturbing).

I gess I could use an excuse: the Gaurdian Angels either really wanted to work with young people (Lord Baden Powell would love to accept the position, C.S. Lewis would probably enjoy helping a former atheist on a path of wisdom) or are trying to atone for their sins. The ones who are looking for redemption, such as Richard the Lionheart, Constantine the Great, and John Newton are trying to serve as gaurdian angels in order to be forgiven for their harm on others. So it would kind of be like purgatory. In the end, Jesus forgives, but they have to be cleansed first. The Abominables, since they were cast into hell, recieved power from Satan and the other rulers of Hell in order to serve them. All of the good deeds that they did, such as Ghengis Kahn uniting and advancing Mongolia, are forgotten and washed away by the evil that they had done. Perhaps I could also have some of them fighting Satan because they want to kill him so he cannot corrupt more people and send them to hell, but they cannot join God's army.

I'd also put in a disclaimer in the beginning about it. Also, congrats on 666th post.

Just a little input, I notice Lincoln on your list of past Christian heroes, but he wasn't a Christian.