Evidence for God from Science

Why did people of ancient times get to witness either miracles directly from God/Jesus or through prophets/disciples but we do not? Why would God just remove all evidence of the supernatural and ask us to believe in the supernatural just based on faith when ancient people were able to witness truly supernatural miracles?

I know there are still miracles today. Maybe it's just because we don't "open" our eyes and mind in order to see them. Maybe it's because there are so many other people in the world, I don't know. But, I know do know without a doubt they are still happening, because I experienced one myself. In 1999, my 2 1/2 year old son was in an accident. When we got him to the hospital, they x-rayed his neck and head, and 2 people (one who was my father, who had worked the ER for 35 years and read many an xray) read the xray and showed his father and I and we could even see where his neck was broke. They packed my son up and life-flighted him out to the nearest childrens hospital. Before we left (we had to drive, they wouldn't let me or his father on the helicopter with him) we contacted a few family and asked them to contact everyone else and to pray. I know I prayed continously the whole drive (about 2 hrs). When we finally got to the hospital, they had already taken him into surgery. Finally the surgeon came out and was saying what they had to do and going on and finally I asked "What about his broken neck?" The surgeon asked "What broken neck?". I said, before we left our town, the doctors there said, and we saw the films, where his neck was broke. The surgeon says "His neck is not broke, he is fine there". He went back later and looked at the films that were sent from our hospital, and could see the difference. There was a miracle that day, I have no doubt in my mind.

MAGSolo wrote:Why did people of ancient times get to witness either miracles directly from God/Jesus or through prophets/disciples but we do not? Why would God just remove all evidence of the supernatural and ask us to believe in the supernatural just based on faith when ancient people were able to witness truly supernatural miracles?

There are still miracles going on today, MAG. I am one of them. I was an atheist just like you and was a member of an atheist organization here in my city and I actively promoted atheism in everything I did and lived my life as an atheist's atheist. Yet God reached down and struck me and called me to be one of his own. That's the last thing I would have wanted but God had other plans.

Re-read amyjo's post; there's a miracle there. There is also a miracle in B.W.'s life (he's also a former vile atheist) and if you like, buy his book where you can read about it for yourself.

FL

And, as far as that goes, a miracle doesn't have to be something life altering. I think just waking up everyday, to a new and glorious day that God has given us, is a miracle in its self.

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

MAGSolo wrote:Why did people of ancient times get to witness either miracles directly from God/Jesus or through prophets/disciples but we do not? Why would God just remove all evidence of the supernatural and ask us to believe in the supernatural just based on faith when ancient people were able to witness truly supernatural miracles?

There are still miracles going on today, MAG. I am one of them. I was an atheist just like you and was a member of an atheist organization here in my city and I actively promoted atheism in everything I did and lived my life as an atheist's atheist. Yet God reached down and struck me and called me to be one of his own. That's the last thing I would have wanted but God had other plans.

Re-read amyjo's post; there's a miracle there. There is also a miracle in B.W.'s life (he's also a former vile atheist) and if you like, buy his book where you can read about it for yourself.

FL

Being converted from an atheist to a believer is not a miracle; there is nothing supernatural about it. As far as Amys claim goes, she would need some type of corroborating evidence. It wouldnt be hard at all to show the xray showing where the neck was actually broken and then the x-ray showing where the neck was fine. The story falls apart very quickly because if the original doctors had xrays showing the boy had a broken neck, these xrays would have been given to the doctor at the other hospital and he would have never said "what broken neck" because the xrays from the first hospital would have clearly shown the broken neck and if the boy actually had a broken neck the new doctor would have been informed of this. So are we to just assume they transported the boy knowing he had a broken neck and just didnt relay this information to the new doctors? Does that even make sense?

amyjo5995 wrote:And, as far as that goes, a miracle doesn't have to be something life altering. I think just waking up everyday, to a new and glorious day that God has given us, is a miracle in its self.

Clearly you dont know what the definition of a miracle is. A miracle is an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause. Waking up every day is not a miracle.

MAGSolo wrote:

Being converted from an atheist to a believer is not a miracle; there is nothing supernatural about it.

I'm sorry you feel that way Magsolo. I still will believe till my dying day that it was a miracle, and by the way,If you look back at the last couple of sentences of my original post, the doctors at the childrens hospital did have the original xrays, but they rushed him into surgery so quick and did their own xrays, that he didn't look at the first ones till later. And, I understand what you are saying the technical definition on a miracle is, but what I'm saying is to look into the world everyday, there are miracles all around you. Sometimes, being so cynical puts blinders on your eyes.

This is actually a good question, one that I've asked myself before. I believe there are a few things to take into account.

As amyjo beautifully pointed out, miracles do still happen. We may not hear of them that much, and it might not be the Red Sea being parted, but there are still miracles happening. Prayers being miraculously answered, people being miraculously healed; it still happens.

Also, let's remember G-d's Plans and Knowledge. Let's look at some examples of the miracles of the Bible. When G-d called Moses to deliver the children of Isra'el, Moses needed to be convinced. I mean, let's be honest, a simple gut feeling or dream telling him to deliver a whole nation of slaves from a bigger, more powerful nation is a pretty big task, and you'd need some convincing reasons to undertake such a task on your own. Hence, the burning bush, the staff turning into a snake, and his hand becoming leprous (Exodus 3:1-4, 4:1-7). When Moses came to the Isra'elites to tell them he was to deliver them, he needed some convincing evidence that showed it was the real deal (Exodus 4:29-31). When Moses and Aaron tried to persuade Pharaoh to let them and their people go free, it took some pretty convincing evidence that their G-d was a Mighty G-d, hence the Ten Plagues (Exodus 7-12). Later on, when Jesus came, although He refused to perform miracles as if He were an entertainer (Matthew 12:38-40), He certainly did perform some supernatural feats, such as His famous miracles like healing the sick (Matthew 14:14), feeding thousands with five loaves and two fish (Matthew 14:15-21), and walking on water (Matthew 14:25-27), and that all in one chapter of one of the Gospels! And one also cannot forget His chief miracle, His Resurrection, proving both that He was the awaited Messiah and Divine.

So, to make it short, those big, awesome miracles were NECESSARY back then, as people didn't have Scriptures and prophecies and all of the things that we have that spell everything out for us and record things clearly. The reason we don't need them in the same way now is because we have everything we need for faith: the Scriptures, through which we can see their truth, wisdom, accuracy, and Divine Origin; the Resurrection of Jesus and it's evidence, which confirms Jesus being Who He said He Was; our knowledge of science which has backed up the Scriptures' claims of things such as the creation of the universe, the history of the Earth and its lifeforms, and the universe being fine-tuned to inhabit human life; the Holy Spirit, who indwells those who accept G-d through Christ and confirms His Existence, Truth, and Love personally and enlightens believers as they study the Bible. All these things and more make manna falling from the sky and dead people being raised unnecessary for faith. G-d is not our Magician.

MAGSolo, even if a miracle were staring at you, you wouldn't recognize it as such. The ancient Hebrews saw so many miracles during their 40 year trek from Egypt to Canaan, yet they still snubbed God. Ditto for the people who witnessed Jesus' miracles. The nature of those who are perishing is spiritual blindness, and you are self-afflicted by this. So, none of the accounts we will give you of modern miracles will convince you because you are dead to the things of God. To use a colloquial expression, you are closed-minded.

It is very difficult for an atheist to be open-minded. Do you have enough insight to see this in yourself?

FL

The greatest miracle is all around us, creation itself…

So much so, we no longer consider it a miracle because we see it everyday

Romans 1:19, 20
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amyjo5995 wrote:I'm sorry you feel that way Magsolo. I still will believe till my dying day that it was a miracle, and by the way,If you look back at the last couple of sentences of my original post, the doctors at the childrens hospital did have the original xrays, but they rushed him into surgery so quick and did their own xrays, that he didn't look at the first ones till later. And, I understand what you are saying the technical definition on a miracle is, but what I'm saying is to look into the world everyday, there are miracles all around you. Sometimes, being so cynical puts blinders on your eyes.

Let's also remember that though there are some impressive miracles in the Bible, they aren't exactly common. With some exceptions like the Exodus and the ministry and resurrection of Jesus, they weren't all that rapid fire, often weren't witnessed by enormous crowds, and weren't always things that were undeniably supernatural so most people in "Biblical Times" probably never got to see a miracle during their lifetime. After all the Bible chronicles a very long stretch of history, and there were periods of centuries between big, well-attended miracles.

After the last great Miracle of the ressurection, there was no further need of those types of miracles.
Now we have the ongoing miracles of the Holy Spirit and if people don't "see" them, well...maybe they just don't know what to look for, or maybe the miracles they WANT or not the one's they need or maybe people just see what they want to see.
Some see miracles all around them and others see nothing.

what ongoing miracles of the holy spirit?

Jesus' face on toast of course !