Evidence for God from Science

One my atheist friend watched news about Belfast, how people set fires and so. It was like he was trying to point something. I replied him this: I am not like them.

The Irish to crazy things because they're Irish, not because they're religious. Or maybe it's both. I don't know. If he was insinuating you were like them, that's pretty insulting though. Clearly you don't want to kill people.

He was insinuating that religious people are crazy fanatics probably.

1over137 wrote:He was insinuating that religious people are crazy fanatics probably.

Some are, most aren't.

The Irish have a LONG history of religious strife and conflict over religion. Is it a reflection on religion or Christianity as a whole? No, but it would be ignorant to say that most if not all of the major conflicts/issues in Ireland have been rooted in religion.

Religion is still considered by many to be a part of a person's cultural identification. For instance in the Balkans - if you're Catholic, it is assumed that you're Croatian, if you're Eastern Orthodox, it's assumed that you're Serbian, or if you're Muslim, it's assumed that you're Bosnian. That's why some think that the cause of the war that took place when Yugoslavia broke up was caused by religion, which is false.

Reactionary wrote:Religion is still considered by many to be a part of a person's cultural identification. For instance in the Balkans - if you're Catholic, it is assumed that you're Croatian, if you're Eastern Orthodox, it's assumed that you're Serbian, or if you're Muslim, it's assumed that you're Bosnian. That's why some think that the cause of the war that took place when Yugoslavia broke up was caused by religion, which is false.

What was it then, if not religious? How is the ethnic cleansing explained other than through a religious prism? I'm asking as I really know next to thing about the cause of the war so my views are essentially (mis)shaped by what I've heard on CNN at the time.

Byblos wrote:

Reactionary wrote:Religion is still considered by many to be a part of a person's cultural identification. For instance in the Balkans - if you're Catholic, it is assumed that you're Croatian, if you're Eastern Orthodox, it's assumed that you're Serbian, or if you're Muslim, it's assumed that you're Bosnian. That's why some think that the cause of the war that took place when Yugoslavia broke up was caused by religion, which is false.

What was it then, if not religious? How is the ethnic cleansing explained other than through a religious prism? I'm asking as I really know next to thing about the cause of the war so my views are essentially (mis)shaped by what I've heard on CNN at the time.

I assume he means that it is more an issue of nationalism/ethnicity than religion. Usually, when a conflict arises between two groups that practice different religions, there are political and economic factors that are the primary cause. That's at least what I was going to point out, anyways. Ireland is a good example. There is a lot of religious strife, but it is driven largely by a history of political conflict.

Byblos wrote:

Reactionary wrote:Religion is still considered by many to be a part of a person's cultural identification. For instance in the Balkans - if you're Catholic, it is assumed that you're Croatian, if you're Eastern Orthodox, it's assumed that you're Serbian, or if you're Muslim, it's assumed that you're Bosnian. That's why some think that the cause of the war that took place when Yugoslavia broke up was caused by religion, which is false.

What was it then, if not religious? How is the ethnic cleansing explained other than through a religious prism? I'm asking as I really know next to thing about the cause of the war so my views are essentially (mis)shaped by what I've heard on CNN at the time.

Nationalism. Yugoslavia consisted of six nations, and although they're all south Slavic, there are notable cultural differences, and religion is one of them. Yugoslavia was being kept alive by suppressing nationalism, which caused tension. When the first desires to secede came up, the question raised was how to regulate those new countries: the most significant issue was that borders between republics weren't also ethnic borders. This was especially true for Bosnia - as seen on this map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... s_1991.GIF

Territorial claims of different nations overlapped with each other, and so a conflict ensued. As Ichtus said, political and economic factors were key, religious strife was just a symptom.

I think we have to be careful of attributing causality to one factor just because of a correlation. Many times its just a matter of national identity and creating an us vs. them rather than an actual conflict over ideas. Look at football (soccer) in other countries. It becomes part of a person's identity, there's huge strife over it. Is it "because" of soccer that people fight and kill each other? In some ways maybe yes, in other ways no.

Or take another example, Catholicism in art. I'm a bit of a movie junkie. Take almost any movie director who was raised Catholic. There will be Catholic imagery and ideas in his film. It doesn't even matter whether he's practicing, nominal, or vehemently anti-religious. You can see the influence of Catholicism on his films. More than one person (including the critic Roger Ebert) have said the same thing.

So some of the history of religious strife, the vast majority of it has nothing directly to do with, say, the level of importance one puts on baptism. I don't believe that for one second, I believe its mostly political conflict.

So why were they burning things in Belfast? Did they lose in soccer/football?

You could always point to the book-burnings perpetrated by the anti-Christian Nazis, or the "Cultural Revolution" that purged China of all that it held dear brought by the atheistic, self-worshipping Mao. There are countless examples. Of course your atheistic friend will probably deny that it was a result of his/her worldview, and that "religion did it". But we all know the true reality of what fuels strife and hatred in the world.