Evidence for God from Science

Beanybag wrote:Lots of things bother me about this. How does she have memories about it if it was something nonphysical and separate from her body? Also, this is nothing new to near-death experiences, and if these were proof of anything, they'd be proof for every religion. Another thing that happens at death and at near-death experiences is a releasing of DMT, and extremely potent hallucinogen that can make a few minutes feel like a few years (or so I've heard). One interesting thing about DMT is it's released from the pinneal gland, which is where Decartes said the soul interacted with the brain /trivia. Also, how does she go to heaven and then come back. Why would she go to heaven before her time? Things like this just don't add up for me.

PaulSacramento wrote:For a believer, no miracle is needed and for an unbeliever, no miracle will be enough.

Lots of things bother me about this. How does she have memories about it if it was something nonphysical and separate from her body? Also, this is nothing new to near-death experiences, and if these were proof of anything, they'd be proof for every religion. Another thing that happens at death and at near-death experiences is a releasing of DMT, and extremely potent hallucinogen that can make a few minutes feel like a few years (or so I've heard). One interesting thing about DMT is it's released from the pinneal gland, which is where Decartes said the soul interacted with the brain /trivia. Also, how does she go to heaven and then come back. Why would she go to heaven before her time? Things like this just don't add up for me.

Gman wrote:

Beanybag wrote:Lots of things bother me about this. How does she have memories about it if it was something nonphysical and separate from her body? Also, this is nothing new to near-death experiences, and if these were proof of anything, they'd be proof for every religion. Another thing that happens at death and at near-death experiences is a releasing of DMT, and extremely potent hallucinogen that can make a few minutes feel like a few years (or so I've heard). One interesting thing about DMT is it's released from the pinneal gland, which is where Decartes said the soul interacted with the brain /trivia. Also, how does she go to heaven and then come back. Why would she go to heaven before her time? Things like this just don't add up for me.

Well if you believe that all there is is chemicals in this world, then this is the only answer you will ever get.. It's all chemicals...

PaulSacramento wrote:For a believer, no miracle is needed and for an unbeliever, no miracle will be enough.

Very true... Although it is interesting, I wouldn't hang my hat on this or even the Shroud of Turin.. The real transformation or believing I see comes with the transforming of the heart. Focusing on G-d with a purity of heart.

Conclusions

Higher concentrations of CO2 proved significant, and higher serum levels of K might be important in the provoking of NDEs. Since these associations have not been reported before, our study adds novel information to the field of NDEs phenomena.

He stimulated, with electricity, a part of the brain called the left angular gyrus. Patients immediately reported the impression of a shadowy person lurking behind them. And when he stimulated the right angular gyrus, they reported that they left their physical body and could look down on it from above — the classic out-of-body experience.

At some stage in the future, we might know enough about the brain to fully understand the NDE. But right now, we know that you don't have to be dying to have one, and that it neither proves nor disproves the existence of an afterlife.

jlay wrote:

Lots of things bother me about this. How does she have memories about it if it was something nonphysical and separate from her body? Also, this is nothing new to near-death experiences, and if these were proof of anything, they'd be proof for every religion. Another thing that happens at death and at near-death experiences is a releasing of DMT, and extremely potent hallucinogen that can make a few minutes feel like a few years (or so I've heard). One interesting thing about DMT is it's released from the pinneal gland, which is where Decartes said the soul interacted with the brain /trivia. Also, how does she go to heaven and then come back. Why would she go to heaven before her time? Things like this just don't add up for me.

I take these experiences with a grain of salt. But, let's just forget the specific event, and deal with your question.
You admit that your memories are nonphysical. I agree. So, right now, what you are reading, is it physical? Yet it came from something non-physical, that being my thoughts. And they were transmitted to you. So, even if I died before you read them, they would still exist, no? I can transmit libraries of non-material data through invisible radio waves. This data can travel thousands of miles to a receiver where it can be stored or read. And this memory thing is problem, why?

Pierson5 wrote: Couldn't have said it better Beanybag. If an individual had one of these out of body experiences and claimed they saw Muhammad (being a Muslim), I don't think any of you would classify that as evidence for the Islamic religion. It appears these experiences may be due to brain states triggered by cardiac arrest and anesthesia. There are plenty of things that trigger these types of experiences (e.g. fighter pilots, drug usage, etc..):

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers06.html

Pierson5 wrote:At some stage in the future, we might know enough about the brain to fully understand the NDE. But right now, we know that you don't have to be dying to have one, and that it neither proves nor disproves the existence of an afterlife.

He stimulated, with electricity, a part of the brain called the left angular gyrus. Patients immediately reported the impression of a shadowy person lurking behind them. And when he stimulated the right angular gyrus, they reported that they left their physical body and could look down on it from above — the classic out-of-body experience.

At some stage in the future, we might know enough about the brain to fully understand the NDE. But right now, we know that you don't have to be dying to have one, and that it neither proves nor disproves the existence of an afterlife.

Swimmy wrote:

He stimulated, with electricity, a part of the brain called the left angular gyrus. Patients immediately reported the impression of a shadowy person lurking behind them. And when he stimulated the right angular gyrus, they reported that they left their physical body and could look down on it from above — the classic out-of-body experience.

At some stage in the future, we might know enough about the brain to fully understand the NDE. But right now, we know that you don't have to be dying to have one, and that it neither proves nor disproves the existence of an afterlife.

Is he trying to debunk NDE's as natural phenomenon that solely relies on the brain? Cause I would question how the brain can cause one to float out of their body and look down it. Not to mention seeing objects out of view. IF anything it verifies a supernatural event and that one does not require the brain or body to exist.

Beanybag wrote:

Swimmy wrote:

He stimulated, with electricity, a part of the brain called the left angular gyrus. Patients immediately reported the impression of a shadowy person lurking behind them. And when he stimulated the right angular gyrus, they reported that they left their physical body and could look down on it from above — the classic out-of-body experience.

At some stage in the future, we might know enough about the brain to fully understand the NDE. But right now, we know that you don't have to be dying to have one, and that it neither proves nor disproves the existence of an afterlife.

Is he trying to debunk NDE's as natural phenomenon that solely relies on the brain? Cause I would question how the brain can cause one to float out of their body and look down it. Not to mention seeing objects out of view. IF anything it verifies a supernatural event and that one does not require the brain or body to exist.

Do you think that one's perceptions always accurately reflect reality?

RickD wrote:B.W., where are you? We need you here.

Swimmy wrote:I would assume my perception is limited by my mind and body. The fact that one can perceive outside of their body and see unseen objects out of sight goes against the limitations of the physical body.