Evidence for God from Science

Greetings,

I have a problem with the concept of Christianity about End times.

It's so depressing because I do care about science. For example, we have a huge rover called Curiosity that's headed to the surface of Mars. Mars, a planet of dreams, a planet with a posibility of microbial life... a planet that we must colonize if humanity has an Earthly future. Everything points to that - we have a huge station that's bigger than a football court and we have six people constantly living there.

On the top of that, we have the Bible and the Christians who promise that the world is going to end. And end soon, it's a matter of ears.

So why care about science at all? Why study at all? Why do Christians send their kid to Universities if the world is going to end? Why care about science if's all for naught?

Because it's what we do with the time that we have that counts. God gave us curious minds and innovative thoughts for a reason.... It's up to us to use them. Besides, there are differing opinions on the End Times -- what they are and when they will happen -- and because of that we don't need to worry about them... we should merely be ready when the time comes.

Zvezdichko wrote:Greetings,

I have a problem with the concept of Christianity about End times.

It's so depressing because I do care about science. For example, we have a huge rover called Curiosity that's headed to the surface of Mars. Mars, a planet of dreams, a planet with a posibility of microbial life... a planet that we must colonize if humanity has an Earthly future. Everything points to that - we have a huge station that's bigger than a football court and we have six people constantly living there.

On the top of that, we have the Bible and the Christians who promise that the world is going to end. And end soon, it's a matter of ears.

So why care about science at all? Why study at all? Why do Christians send their kid to Universities if the world is going to end? Why care about science if's all for naught?

Sure... The Bible does talk about the end times and when that happens no one exactly knows. But if you are under the assumption that we give just give up on science because of the Bible you are wrong. Science intrinsically is NOT wrong or evil but rather could be used as a tool to either support or not support such motives.. As an example science can be used to stop diseases like cancer or pollutants in the environment, but it can also be used to promote cancer such as pumping plastics and other toxic materials into our environment as well.

Unfortunately.. And I say unfortunately.. Many Christians (but not all) have revolted against the environment and science that promotes cleaner earth polices in the wake of the second coming. No one is denying that.. You however will find a much stronger conviction for environmental issues and science under the JEWISH mindset. This is found under the Biblical concept known as Tikkun Olam where repairing the world is paramount.

So to answer your question, the second coming will happen, and until that time happens, we should be using science to be stewards of the earth as commanded in the Bible.

AND when the second coming happens, the earth will transform to a "Garden of Eden" state. That is what we should be supporting.....

You could ask the same question, why care about science if we're all going to die and that's the end.

Zvezdichko wrote:On the top of that, we have the Bible and the Christians who promise that the world is going to end. And end soon, it's a matter of ears.

So why care about science at all? Why study at all? Why do Christians send their kid to Universities if the world is going to end? Why care about science if's all for naught?

Who says the world is going to end "soon"? We have no idea when that will happen. One might as well say that there isn't any point in studying science because the universe is destined to die out of natural causes or because the Earth could be struck by an asteroid and humanity destroyed. Why do Christians send their kids to Universities when they know they could be hit by a car on the way and killed? We obviously can't just sit around and wait for destruction to find us when there are so many good things we can be doing. The apostle Paul, for instance, may have believed that Christ's return was imminent, and yet he still called for others to help the poor and improve and expand the Christian communities he and others had followed. Christianity calls for action, for service to the Lord. God has established his Kingdom, and until the last day when we join him there, we are to strive for that kingdom. We may not be in the new creation yet, but Christ is our sovereign NOW.

Is that of any use?

Reactionary wrote:You could ask the same question, why care about science if we're all going to die and that's the end.

I would say using science to escape the planet (and colonize other worlds) is more of a "survival of the fittest" evolutionary mindset. Using science to repair the planet is more a Biblical mindset.

If you really want to understand the Biblical mindset of the sciences... Study ISRAEL... They are the LEADERS of many environmental issues under the spirit of Tikkun olam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_an ... _in_Israel

And under Israel (and G-d), we believe, will eventually transform the earth to it's proper condition.

Gman wrote: I would say using science to escape the planet (and colonize other worlds) is more of a "survival of the fittest" evolutionary mindset. Using science to repair the planet is more a Biblical mindset.

So, according to you the Bible is anti-space exploration?

Mars is no longer inhabitable since its magnetosphere degraded. We're not sure why it degraded or why planets even have these to begin with.. But you'll have better luck with Europa maybe (Jupiter's Magnetosphere is bigger than the Sun).

Zvezdichko wrote:

Gman wrote: I would say using science to escape the planet (and colonize other worlds) is more of a "survival of the fittest" evolutionary mindset. Using science to repair the planet is more a Biblical mindset.

So, according to you the Bible is anti-space exploration?

Biblically I can't really answer that.. I don't really see anything wrong with it. I would question the motive of it however. It might sound cool, but where is this mindset heading toward? Again I would stress what can we do to repair the current world that we have now rather than throw out gobs of money to escape or explore somewhere else.

Gman wrote: Biblically I can't really answer that.. I don't really see anything wrong with it. I would question the motive of it however. It might sound cool, but where is this mindset heading toward? Again I would stress what can we do to repair the current world that we have now rather than throw out gobs of money to escape or explore somewhere else.

This is profoundly unscientific and it has been proven false.

Yes, we go to explore and colonize other worlds, but in the end it saves human lives here, on Earth. If the Space Station never existed, then the technology that was required to develop complicated robotics would have never existed. Now we have complicated surgeries right inside NMR-chambers controlled by robots.

Space probes have improved dozens of medical tools... JWST influenced ophthalmology even before its flight.

If you fund a grand project, there will inevitably be spinoffs.

Zvezdichko wrote: Mars ... a planet that we must colonize if humanity has an Earthly future.

Zvezdichko wrote:

Gman wrote: Biblically I can't really answer that.. I don't really see anything wrong with it. I would question the motive of it however. It might sound cool, but where is this mindset heading toward? Again I would stress what can we do to repair the current world that we have now rather than throw out gobs of money to escape or explore somewhere else.

This is profoundly unscientific and it has been proven false.

Yes, we go to explore and colonize other worlds, but in the end it saves human lives here, on Earth. If the Space Station never existed, then the technology that was required to develop complicated robotics would have never existed. Now we have complicated surgeries right inside NMR-chambers controlled by robots.

Space probes have improved dozens of medical tools... JWST influenced ophthalmology even before its flight.

If you fund a grand project, there will inevitably be spinoffs.

Unscientific? False? You fail to see the point. The point isn't to completely dismiss the prospect of space travel. The point is irrelevant to science, but it's not false. It's relevant to taking scientific knowledge to restore and protect nature while also advancing technology, and finding ways to improve the world's condition rather than trying to flee the damage done to this planet by going to another one.

Some people worry that this planet is being trashed, and that we'd need to leave to another planet in order to get a fresh start and leave the damage done to this place. However, the problem is that people might eventually trash that planet and want to move onto another one.

The core point being spoken is not false. It's about human nature. People are impulsive and destructive. So, if we were to change that by appealing to a need to take care of what we have before moving to another planet, then problems we deal with and resolve here will be useful for dealing with problems on other planets. However, there are other complications, like terraforming, magnetic fields to protect the planet, communications, internet access between different locations, etc...

Zvezdichko wrote: This is profoundly unscientific and it has been proven false.

I have no clue what you are talking about...

Zvezdichko wrote:Yes, we go to explore and colonize other worlds, but in the end it saves human lives here, on Earth.

At what cost? Pumping more toxins and electrical waste into the environment?

Zvezdichko wrote:If the Space Station never existed, then the technology that was required to develop complicated robotics would have never existed. Now we have complicated surgeries right inside NMR-chambers controlled by robots. Space probes have improved dozens of medical tools... JWST influenced ophthalmology even before its flight.

If you fund a grand project, there will inevitably be spinoffs.

Yes and I would stress that it's more related to Babylonian thinking.. A utopia under a robotic god that eventually spews toxins and other harmful chemicals into the earth that kills animals and other ecosystems. Again I'm not saying that all technical adventures are necessarily bad or wrong, but if you think they are the only solutions, then really you are no better off than the Christians than think they can pollute the earth before the second coming.

Jesus Christ, I have to admit something.

I hate green politics. I hate Greenpeace. I hate econuts. I hate treehuggers. I hate green supporters in the Parliament or in the Congress. They've done too much to harm science. May they rot in hell.

I think that my aversion towards greenism is going to spoil this discussion. Sorry. I can't discuss this because I'm biased. I will never forgive those nuts that they're so against nuclear plants, genetical engineering and science as a whole.

Leaving the discussion for now.