Evidence for God from Science

Jesus while being crucified said: Father why have you forsaken me. (Matthew 27:46) It doesn't sound like he died willingly.

Human senses are not accurate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BRDCxNE ... age#t=191s (3:10 is the point)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEc_jeGBVxs

I don't have a point, I am simply provoking thought,
Jordan

Jesus was quoting psalm 22:1 for those that could hear Him and understand.

PaulSacramento wrote:Jesus was quoting psalm 22:1 for those that could hear Him and understand.

This. Psalm 22 is a messianic psalm that ends triumphantly. By invoking it, you could say, Jesus was actually claiming victory.

Icthus wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Jesus was quoting psalm 22:1 for those that could hear Him and understand.

This. Psalm 22 is a messianic psalm that ends triumphantly. By invoking it, you could say, Jesus was actually claiming victory.

Yep, pretty much.
I think that there are times that we forget that Jesus and what He said and did, would have had different "interpretations" to his 1st century audience compared with Us.
It is important to try our bets to read Him under that context.
And this is one of those cases that may SEEM to be one thing, but is truly another.

Of course there is no reason to think that, at THAT point in time, Jesus could have felt "alone and frightened" as he took on the sins of the world unto Himself.
We don't know WHAT was going on IN His mind at the time and He may indeed have felt that way, "cut off" from the "Godhead" as He was at that time.

PaulSacramento wrote:Of course there is no reason to think that, at THAT point in time, Jesus could have felt "alone and frightened" as he took on the sins of the world unto Himself.
We don't know WHAT was going on IN His mind at the time and He may indeed have felt that way, "cut off" from the "Godhead" as He was at that time.

Excellent comment, I was going to say that but you already did.

And this is why after practicing apologetics for fifteen years, I've come to take very few atheists seriously. Do people like sno really thinking they are provoking thought? That they do just shows their ignorance and arrogance. This is just like me going to an atheist website and going:

"Mankind evolved from apes. But there are still apes. Sounds like there's a problem here. I don't have a point. I'm just provoking thought."

I replied to this thread specifically regarding prayer, for some reason it was deleted. I am asking questions, I am seeking, hopefully provoking thought for all parties involved, I do not intend to insult.

Now, if Jesus knew he was the son of God, why would he have a fear of dying?

Did Jesus know he was being sacrificed for all of man's sins? It If so why did he speak those words?

God's son seemed to act and question God's authority before his death.

God did not save his son from dying on the cross, why would he save someone from cancer?

God created the entire Universe, he needed to send his son down to correct his MISTAKES?

Cancer subject: John
Pray for John, he has cancer.

He was healed of cancer, via chemo (Praise God)
He died of cancer (Praise God he's going to a better place)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5q6VFn ... age#t=325s


Thank you for not deleting this post,
Jordan

snorider wrote:I replied to this thread specifically regarding prayer, for some reason it was deleted. I am asking questions, I am seeking, hopefully provoking thought for all parties involved, I do not intend to insult.

I'm not aware of any deleted posts.

snorider wrote:Now, if Jesus knew he was the son of God, why would he have a fear of dying?

Because he emptied himself and wanted to fully feel what it's like to be human.

snorider wrote:Did Jesus know he was being sacrificed for all of man's sins? It If so why did he speak those words?

Yes, and what do you mean?

snorider wrote:God's son seemed to act and question God's authority before his death.

Where? He fully submitted to the Father's will even though he was terrified of it.

snorider wrote:God did not save his son from dying on the cross, why would he save someone from cancer?

The latter has temporal consequences while the former eternal ones.

snorider wrote:God created the entire Universe, he needed to send his son down to correct his MISTAKES?

Mistakes according to whom? How do you know this wasn't the plan all along? (in fact it was precisely that).

snorider wrote:Cancer subject: John
Pray for John, he has cancer.

He was healed of cancer, via chemo (Praise God)
He died of cancer (Praise God he's going to a better place)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5q6VFn ... age#t=325s

Not sure if this is supposed to make a point but prayers anyway.

snorider wrote:Thank you for not deleting this post,
Jordan

You're welcome.

Jordan/snorider- did you read any posts in this thread? Specifically, did you read Paul's post? His isn't the only view out there but if you disagree with his assessment, it would be courteous to respond rather than just ignore his post and repeat what you already said. That's a great way to kill a conversation.

As far as the other points, God doesn't make mistakes. As far as Christians glorifying God in all circumstances, it only makes sense because according to many the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. So what's the problem? There's not a contradiction there.

Icthus wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Jesus was quoting psalm 22:1 for those that could hear Him and understand.

This. Psalm 22 is a messianic psalm that ends triumphantly. By invoking it, you could say, Jesus was actually claiming victory.

Psalm 22[a]

For the director of music. To the tune of “The Doe of the Morning.” A psalm of David.

1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.[c]
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth[d] is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[e] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.
19 But you, Lord, do not be far from me.
You are my strength; come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 I will declare your name to my people;
in the assembly I will praise you.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you[f] I will fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
those who seek the Lord will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the Lord,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the Lord
and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness,
declaring to a people yet unborn:
He has done it!


What part of this exactly were you talking about? Jesus crying out why Lord?

Why would the Lord, creator of the entire universe first of all need to send a mortal son?

He created the entire Universe, whoops forgot about that whole creating man with free will sin thing need to create a mortal son that dies unknowingly to correct it.

Double post

PaulSacramento wrote:

Icthus wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Jesus was quoting psalm 22:1 for those that could hear Him and understand.

This. Psalm 22 is a messianic psalm that ends triumphantly. By invoking it, you could say, Jesus was actually claiming victory.

Yep, pretty much.
I think that there are times that we forget that Jesus and what He said and did, would have had different "interpretations" to his 1st century audience compared with Us.
It is important to try our bets to read Him under that context.
And this is one of those cases that may SEEM to be one thing, but is truly another.

Psalm 22 again

I counter you with http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV

Poor first borns, women? Not even worth sacrificing.

Most of you probably grew up among the faith of your siblings, most Christian's grew up around Christians, most Muslims grew up around Muslims. Are you the same religion of your siblings? Why is this?


I assume, most of you are grown men. Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny? What makes your Christian God "more legitimate" than other gods worshipped throughout human kind?

A personal relationship, is a common answer, throughout the world.

snorider wrote:Most of you probably grew up among the faith of your siblings, most Christian's grew up around Christians, most Muslims grew up around Muslims. Are you the same religion of your siblings? Why is this?


I assume, most of you are grown men. Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny? What makes your Christian God "more legitimate" than other gods worshipped throughout human kind?

A personal relationship, is a common answer, throughout the world.

You pose a question, you get several answers, ignore all of them, come back with more questions that have nothing to do with the original questions you asked, make false assumptions about God's intentions and what everyone's background is here, then you wonder why your posts are deleted? Try engaging in a meaningful conversation first.