Does God institute bad governments?

[B757]

Hi everyone, first time posting here. I have a question that I've had for a while, regarding Romans 13:1-5

"13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."

If God establishes every authority, does that mean he also established the evil ones? (e.g. Khmer Rouge, various totalitarian regimes like Stalinist Russia and North Korea, Nazi Germany, etc.?) Does that make him responsible for the evil caused by those governments?

[Stygian]

I personally don't believe God calls us to submit ourselves to all governing authorities, especially considering those of today were not necessarily of God. It seems He's referring to the authority of the time. Even then, the authority of the time was Him! He even directly influenced and appointed many kings, simply because He knew best. Today, it's not really God calling the shots.

People often ignore Romans 12:2.
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

It also doesn't help that the KJV translation of Romans 13 doesn't mention 'governing authorities," but rather "higher powers." God is the HIGHEST power, higher than all else. We are called to obey Him, not men (Acts 5:29). Therefore, it's hard for me to believe he put all the 'powers' we see today in place.

Chuck Baldwin wrote a book on this subject in 2011, entitled Romans 13: The True Meaning of Submission.

Here's a sermon he gave (WARNING: IT'S LONG!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dH4zVnDLCk

Stanley Hauerwass also had a short bit on Romans 13: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2om54Lp6Hxg

[PaulSacramento]

Hi everyone, first time posting here. I have a question that I've had for a while, regarding Romans 13:1-5

"13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."

If God establishes every authority, does that mean he also established the evil ones? (e.g. Khmer Rouge, various totalitarian regimes like Stalinist Russia and North Korea, Nazi Germany, etc.?) Does that make him responsible for the evil caused by those governments?

Context.
What is Paul doing here? Writing a letter to the Christian congregation in Rome.
Think about that:
A fringe religious group with NO government recognition, persecuted by those it originated from, in a area that has ZERO tolerance for civic disobedience from people.
Like his comments on slaves, Paul is making sure that the congregation does NOT do anything that will get them, in short, persecuted and killed.

Jesus had no issues with the government of His time in regards to advocating rebellion and not following their rules, far from that:
Give to Caesar what is Caesar's.
Paul is also familiar with how God USED the ruling authorites and foreign kingdoms in the past to punish Israel for its lack of faith and following his words.

[Stygian]

Paul is also familiar with how God USED the ruling authorites and foreign kingdoms in the past to punish Israel for its lack of faith and following his words.

Heck! Who's to say that all these crazy tyrants in history aren't God's way of punishing us for not having faith in Him, yet having plenty if the government of man?

[PaulSacramento]

Paul is also familiar with how God USED the ruling authorites and foreign kingdoms in the past to punish Israel for its lack of faith and following his words.

Heck! Who's to say that all these crazy tyrants in history aren't God's way of punishing us for not having faith in Him, yet having plenty if the government of man?

Well, I don't recall ANY tyrant that gain power all by himself, do you?
They always had lots of human help and, worse of all, human complacency.