Evidence for God from Science

I've been a Christian since I was a child and I grew up in a very conservative home. Within the past couple years I've found that I'm a lot more liberal than my family. They're all YEC and never question the Bible. I'm definitely not and I frequently do, not challenging it's authority, but I try to make sense of things that don't necessarily make sense to me and I am MUCH more open to science than they are. They think a lot of it is Atheistic while I think it explains God's methods of creation (which frankly I think is much more beautiful and powerful than poofing things into existence). I also am much more politically liberal than my family on most social issues.

I've always been fairly reserved, bordering timid. Never had very many friends, never got into any trouble, never really did a lot of things that weren't allowed by my parents (however they were never super strict). Still to this day most of my time is spent in my room. - In short, I've always been a wallflower. Sometimes I like it this way. I don't like a fast paced life or doing things I'm uncomfortable with, and generally I don't like most people my age (20). I don't mean to sound smug, but I find others around my age to be only concerned with sex, weed, alcohol, and partying. It like there's a movement against human intellect. I'm by no means a perfect Christian. I pray irregularly (maybe every few days at most), I don't like the church my parents have chosen so I don't always go, and I have a hard time reading the Bible if it's not at a guided Bible study, which I haven't been to in almost 2 years, but I do enjoy discussing my faith and I often think about it and try to grow within it which seems like an odd things to do, considering the things I just listed. So that's a little about my background.


I feel like I have very little useful life experience. Someone once told me I'm very insightful which I don't necessarily agree with, but they don't know that said insight only comes from my own intense skepticism of everything and observing other people and not my own actual experiences. I don't like it at all. I want to be able to have experiences and make mistakes, but I feel like every mistake I make is displeasing God. Especially the ones I make on purpose.

To expand on that last sentence - I've been plastered drunk before, and I've given a girl oral sex. I knew these were not the right thing to do going in and I knew they weren't going out, but I consider them extremely valuable experiences that taught me a lot about myself and in a weird way brought me closer to God, but they both are things that you're told specifically not to do in the Bible.

I'm moving to a university this time next year, but I don't want to continue feeling like I'm living with a set of rules in the back of my head so that I'm making God happy from the sidelines. I don't think it's an enjoyable way to live. I want to have experiences and make mistakes, and I want to be able to make them knowing full well that I am making them and I want to be able to learn from them.

It's ingrained into my head that I need to be a perfect little angel, and always make God happy - but sitting in my room being a good boy probably makes me feel further from God than anything else. The thought of God loving me despite my mistakes is much more appealing than God loving me for following rules. Is this the right way to approach my faith or am I completely off track?

Ryan, I don't think there has to be such a huge divide there. Who is there to say that you can't go out and do things and have fun? And, also, as an adult, trust me you don't have to go out drinking or doing those things that you know are not right in order to have fun. You mentioned that you don't currently go to church because you don't like the one your parents go to. Is there a chance that you can find one on your own that you like? I know you said you are a wallflower, and trust me, I get that. I am, too. But, I think you need to cultivate some new friendships. Steer clear of the people that want you to go out drinking and partying. Hopefully, even if it's when you go off to college, you can find you a church that you are comfortable in, that has lots of opportunities for the young adults to get together and fellowship and just hang out. And, yes-God is going to love you, despite your mistakes. But, I don't think that means you have to go out and intentionally make them in order to have a good time. I wish you the best and will pray you find what you are looking for.

Ryan wrote: It's ingrained into my head that I need to be a perfect little angel, and always make God happy - but sitting in my room being a good boy probably makes me feel further from God than anything else. The thought of God loving me despite my mistakes is much more appealing than God loving me for following rules. Is this the right way to approach my faith or am I completely off track?

Hi Ryan.. I believe you are off track if you think that somehow you have a license to sin if you are under G-d's grace. We have to avoid sin at all costs..

Romans 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.

James 1:21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

Hebrews 10:26, “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.”

Therefore if we state that we truly love him we will obey his commandments..

1 John 5:3-4, “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.”

About G-d's laws or what you call rules.. They are actually for you and your fellow neighbor around you.. To benefit and prosper you.

Deuteronomy 10:12-13 And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God ask of you but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to observe the Lord’s commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good

Deuteronomy 4:40 Keep his decrees and commands, which I am giving you today, so that it may go well with you and your children after you and that you may live long in the land the Lord your God gives you for all time.

Don't waste this life.. Invest in G-d...

Thanks for the replies.

I don't think I was clear initially, I don't consider God's grace a get out of jail free card. I realize I need to follow his word. I just feel like I'm avoiding living life so I can be sure I don't make any mistakes, and it's not enjoyable. It's incredibly lonely. I know full well that if I do put myself out there I will make mistakes no matter what, but I will do my best to avoid them. I think I've been doing well so far, I haven't been drunk in almost a year and haven't had any sexual relations for years now. I do try my best to do right.

What I'm getting at is I almost feel weighed down by a checklist mentality I've been brought up to have, when I've always been told my faith should be strengthening me

And as for a church, I'm looking for one. To be frank, the church my parents go to injects a lot of politics into their sermons. It bugs me. I'm in the process of getting in contact with a friend who goes to a different church that I will most likely end up attending

Anyways, I just wanted to make it clear that I have every intention of doing right by God and I do honestly try very hard to do so. I am an impulsive person and I'm trying to find the balance between living right, while being able to put myself out there.

I don't think you should avoid living. I think as long as you are doing the best you can, following Gods word, you are doing okay. We are not perfect, and I don't think there is anyway to be perfect. You can expect mistakes. That being said, as long as you are not searching out trouble, and when mistakes do happen, you ask forgiveness and try to learn from it and grow, I think you will be alright. Sounds like you have good intentions, you just might need to work on the impulsiveness that could drive you to do things you know are not right.

You said you dont challenge the bibles authority; why not? Why do you think the bible is the word of God, other than because that is what you have been told? If you were raised in the middle east, you would have been raised believing the Quran is the word of God. Being told that something is something doesnt make it so. As far as things like getting drunk and going down on girls being wrong, the bible was written by ancient, mostly uneducated men thousands of years ago. The bible has some good notions of right and wrong, but it is hardly the paragon of moral and ethical guidelines. I would certainly advise against drunkenness, because I personally feel that situations where you basically completely lack control of your emotions and senses are not good but I advise this out of common sense, not because its in the bible.

MAGSolo wrote:You said you dont challenge the bibles authority; why not? Why do you think the bible is the word of God, other than because that is what you have been told? If you were raised in the middle east, you would have been raised believing the Quran is the word of God.

Hey Mag, I was born and raised in the Middle East so there goes your theory.

You are an outlier. The vast majority of of people raised in the middle east are raised under islam. But just like everyone raised in the West is not a Christian, every single individual raised in the middle east is not going to be a muslim

MAGSolo wrote:You are an outlier. The vast majority of of people raised in the middle east are raised under islam. But just like everyone raised in the West is not a Christian, every single individual raised in the middle east is not going to be a muslim

Glad to know you consider over 20 million people as outliers.

Ryan,

I can certainly sympathize with you. You sound a bit like Sir Lancelot in Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail: "Please, let me have a little bit of peril!"

I recommend you pick up a copy of The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky. It's long and at times a bit thick, but it's an absolute masterpiece (and educated people will generally be impressed that you've read it ). I think you might really identify with different aspects of all three brothers, but especially with Alyosha; he is a very young man who is preparing to take his vows and join a monastary as a monk, when his mentor tells him he is not ready yet and makes him go out into the world first. Well, I'll let you look into it more if you're interested.

I think it's important to remember that scripture tells us to be in the world, but not of the world (John 17:14-19). Just as Christ did not shy away from the sinful but embraced them, so too should we. It is neither good for your mental health, nor is it scriptural to keep yourself hidden away in your bedroom all the time. "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 5:14-16) I think it is great and fine to go to parties and other activities with people, so long as you don't partake of sinful behavior along with them. I had a great friend in college who was probably the strongest, gentlist, most loving, most Christ-like Christian I have ever met, and he went to parties all the time-- but he never drank (when he turned 21 he occasionally had A beer), was never sexual, never debaucherous, etc. You know what? People loved him. They knew his opinions of their behavior, that they were sinful, and for many of us who were believers his example was convicting, but more than anything they knew he loved them. And he brought a lot of people to Christ.

I say all this because I wonder about your relationship with God. You seem to have what some psychologists call a "harsh superego;" you seem to characterize God's presense in your life as little more than a series of rules to live by, and I wonder if you feel the presense of the Holy Spirit at all. It is true that "if we love [Him] we will keep [his] laws," but remember that things work best in that order: If we love Him first, keeping the law seems like less of a chore (still not easy, of course, but less of a burden). There is an old hymn that goes, "The joy of the Lord is my strength." I wonder if you have the kind of relationship with God right now where you feel his joy.

Having said all that, I can totally relate to what you are going through because I tend towards a similar disposition. I am very much an introvert, I enjoy reading or listening to music alone, and I have always been on the shy side; I have never been very outgoing, and when I was younger I always felt like I had to drink in order to socialize. I wonder if perhaps social anxiety is part of the problem for you as well, just as it was for me. I can't help but think the problem here isn't so much that you want to go out and experience a sinful lifestyle so that you can learn from it, but that you want to go out and make meaningful connections with others and simply experience life outside of your bedroom.

While it's true that we can (and should) learn from our falls into sin, it is not the only way to learn; regardless of what you try to do or not do, you will learn fairly quickly in this life that there are consequences for sin, and it is much easier on us if we learn from the sins of others than from our own. Certainly, one can learn a lot from one's struggle with alcoholism, but surely you don't think it might be a good idea to become an alcoholic, do you? We can also learn a lot from practicing Christian virtue-- go volunteer at a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter, and I guarantee you'll learn lots.

Anyway, I think some of the advice others gave is sound: Go find a good church or Bible study with people your own age, or close to it. This will hopefull accomplish two things: it will give you a place to meet people and socialize, which is good practice even if you don't feel like hanging out with them all the time; and it will serve to strenthen your relationship with God and to know the joy of the Holy Spirit. Both of these things will enable you to go out into the world with the strength to not be contaminated and wholy consumed by it, but also with the joy and the Love to attract and connect with people. Trust me, when the Love of Christ shines through you, all but those whose hearts are hardened against God will be attracted to you. At least, that's been my experience.

Also, I think you should take MAGsolo's advice as well: question your faith. If you do so as an honest and genuine seeker of the Truth, I am fully confident you will find your faith in God confirmed and strengthened. I am certain MAGsolo would find the same if he ever followed his own advice here.

God bless you, Ryan. I hope you find a good group of believers to grow with.

MAGSolo wrote:You said you dont challenge the bibles authority; why not? Why do you think the bible is the word of God, other than because that is what you have been told? If you were raised in the middle east, you would have been raised believing the Quran is the word of God. Being told that something is something doesnt make it so. As far as things like getting drunk and going down on girls being wrong, the bible was written by ancient, mostly uneducated men thousands of years ago. The bible has some good notions of right and wrong, but it is hardly the paragon of moral and ethical guidelines. I would certainly advise against drunkenness, because I personally feel that situations where you basically completely lack control of your emotions and senses are not good but I advise this out of common sense, not because its in the bible.

That's a joke of a response... These weren't just ordinary people who wrote the Bible... God is the one who wrote the Bible through His holy people.

2 Peter 1:20-21 For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man's will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

More here:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... rigin.html

Ryan wrote:Thanks for the replies.

I don't think I was clear initially, I don't consider God's grace a get out of jail free card. I realize I need to follow his word. I just feel like I'm avoiding living life so I can be sure I don't make any mistakes, and it's not enjoyable. It's incredibly lonely. I know full well that if I do put myself out there I will make mistakes no matter what, but I will do my best to avoid them. I think I've been doing well so far, I haven't been drunk in almost a year and haven't had any sexual relations for years now. I do try my best to do right.

.

No problem Ryan.. If you are lonely then perhaps you should seek a wife. I'm sure that there is an awesome wife for you out there somewhere. But yes, I would abstain from any type of sex or drinking. We are to be set apart from this world.

you seem to characterize God's presense in your life as little more than a series of rules to live by, and I wonder if you feel the presense of the Holy Spirit at all.

Quite the opposite, sorry if I was unclear. I have a big problem with viewing my faith as just a set of rules, but my lifestyle makes them feel that way a lot, which I realize I need to change. The replies in this thread have really helped me figure out how to go about that

If you are lonely then perhaps you should seek a wife. I'm sure that there is an awesome wife for you out there somewhere

haha working on it. I recently was dating a great Christian girl until she abruptly told me she wasn't ready for a relationship at that time after 6 months. A month later on my birthday I found out she had gotten a boyfriend, so that's kind of turned me off to dating for a while

I'm not very good at meeting people so it's taking some work to come out of my shell, especially around girls, but I'd like to get married withing the next 5 or 6 years so it's definitely on the to do list. Thanks for the encouragement

Byblos wrote:

MAGSolo wrote:You are an outlier. The vast majority of of people raised in the middle east are raised under islam. But just like everyone raised in the West is not a Christian, every single individual raised in the middle east is not going to be a muslim

Glad to know you consider over 20 million people as outliers.