Evidence for God from Science

Well there we have it, the greatest mind in history gives his true opinions on God and religion... see the link:

http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/ ... -his-death

In 2008 when the letter was discovered the chat rooms were on fire with discussions. Lets see what happens and it will be interesting to see as the media soaks this up, what role religion or atheism plays in the up coming presidential elections.

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses

More like pride was his weakness.

Such a beautiful mind has such unfortunate consequences.

Dan

Martin wrote:Lets see what happens and it will be interesting to see as the media soaks this up,

I'm quite sure this item scores zero as news. A cat stuck in a tree is more interesting.

Martin wrote: what role religion or atheism plays in the up coming presidential elections.

Both of your candidates for the Top Job are flunkies in the Faith-in-God department.

I see this Einstein story as of no importance for the US elections. Sorry.

FL

In 2008 when this letter surfaced there were endless discussions among the top scientists, professors, collectors etc.
The smartest man to ever live says that there is no God, and you find a cat in a tree more interesting??

Martin wrote:In 2008 when this letter surfaced there were endless discussions among the top scientists, professors, collectors etc.
The smartest man to ever live says that there is no God, and you find a cat in a tree more interesting??

Einstein was indeed a very famous scientist, but to say he was the smartest man to ever live is a bit of an overstatement. He has plenty of competition, and there isn't really any way to know who is the "smartest" person alive, and that doesn't even get into those who lived centuries or millennia ago. When the others say that this isn't really news, they likely mean that it A) isn't that new and B) doesn't really mean anything. Einstein may have been a genius, but he wasn't a biblical scholar, theologian, philosopher of religion etc. When he spoke about God, he spoke out of his area of expertise. Though he was far better informed than Dawkins (whose site the link leads to), his word isn't exactly authoritative (after all, he was reluctant to accept Quantum Mechanics wasn't he, and that was the realm of physics, his home turf).

Martin wrote:The smartest man to ever live says that there is no God, and you find a cat in a tree more interesting??

I didn't say that I thought a cat stuck in a tree is more intersting. I said,

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:I'm quite sure this item scores zero as news. A cat stuck in a tree is more interesting.

As a news item, Einstein's letter is ho-hum. A cat stuck in a tree does have a human interest element. The proof? I have in front of me a local newspaper that does have a story about a lost cat but nothing at all about Einstein. And, really, who cares?

FL

PS: as for those ''endless discussions'' about this letter back in 2008, guess what? You are exaggerating!

We should be careful not to confuse knowledge with wisdom. 2 very different things.

If I recall, Einstein was very much opposed to the big bang theory, even going as far as to make up theories to counter it because it made it seem to much like "God did it".
He was a genius but seems to have been as closed minded and bias as we all are about what we THINK to be true.

I'd have to say it seems clear that Einstein is Athiest. He says in the letter:

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses,"

"For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

When addressing the Big Bang he did so as a scientist, not as an Athiest or a Thiest,

Martin wrote:I'd have to say it seems clear that Einstein is Athiest. He says in the letter:

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses,"

"For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

When addressing the Big Bang he did so as a scientist, not as an Athiest or a Thiest,

I don't understand the point of pointing out he was an atheist, there are many famous atheist scientists and theist scientists.

*edit* One man's opinion does little to discredit Christianity, for all we know he may have recanted on his death bed and believed in Christ, but that would be between him and God and all we can do is speculate. To say he was an atheist/theist/agnostic is pure speculation unless of course you have infinite knowledge and the ability to read minds, that would make you God.

There are a few quotes that Einstein stated that Dawkins did not include. Einstein said the following:

"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe, a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive." From a letter by Einstein to his friend Phyllis Wright, Jan 24th, 1936.

"Science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration towards truth and understanding. This source of feeling however, springs from religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot imagine a scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed as an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Max Jammer, Einstein and Religion Princeton University Press 1999 p.94

"I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist." Ibid, p.48

Dawkins cites Einstein as if Einstein strictly held to his atheist world view. Though it is true that Einstein said that he didn't believe in a personal God, Dawkins is clearly not entitled to claim him as an atheist when he was truly a deist.

The main point is that Einstein did not suffer from the anti-theist belief that all faith is blind faith. Einstein speaks of the "profound faith" of the scientist in the rational intelligibility of the universe. He could not imagine a scientist without that faith. So while Dawkins may not classify Einstein as a theist, Dawkins must share in that profound faith Einstein had, otherwise Einstein would not classify Dawkins as a scientist.

Katabole wrote:There are a few quotes that Einstein stated that Dawkins did not include. Einstein said the following:

"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe, a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive." From a letter by Einstein to his friend Phyllis Wright, Jan 24th, 1936.

"Science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration towards truth and understanding. This source of feeling however, springs from religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot imagine a scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed as an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Max Jammer, Einstein and Religion Princeton University Press 1999 p.94

"I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist." Ibid, p.48

Dawkins cites Einstein as if Einstein strictly held to his atheist world view. Though it is true that Einstein said that he didn't believe in a personal God, Dawkins is clearly not entitled to claim him as an atheist when he was truly a deist.

The main point is that Einstein did not suffer from the anti-theist belief that all faith is blind faith. Einstein speaks of the "profound faith" of the scientist in the rational intelligibility of the universe. He could not imagine a scientist without that faith. So while Dawkins may not classify Einstein as a theist, Dawkins must share in that profound faith Einstein had, otherwise Einstein would not classify Dawkins as a scientist.

If there is one thing we all know is that people read what THEY WANT into the words of "great men".
Whether Einstein was atheist, agnostic or a deist matters as much as whether the guy at the gas station is.
I take Einsteins view on physics with great interest and admiration, His views on religion and God, I take with the some consideration as his views on martial arts or wine making or any other subject he was NOT an expert on.