domokunrox wrote:
I am not sure why you decided this was a creation topic.
Dom, I put this in the Creation forum because the topic of "Soulish creatures" has its biblical roots in the creation narrative in Genesis. Specifically Genesis 1:21:
21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
First and foremost, a reminder that you asked this question in the philosophy section. So, yes, you do need to understand what aristotlean theory is when you are in the philosophy section is.
Dom, I asked the question in the philosophical forum, because that's where you made your statement: "Animals and inanimate objects do not have a mind".
And no, people don't "need to" understand "aristotlean theory", in order to participate in the philosophical forum. It is open to any member, regardless of their knowledge of specific philosophical theories.
Second, there are enormous problems with your assertion that Gen 1:21 calls for. Exactly, what is "living", "creature" , and "moves"? I could argue that vegetation fits into this category as well.
Dom, here is Genesis 1:21KJ:
2
1 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And, here's Genesis 1:21 from blueletterbible.org. It shows the Strong's numbers with the words:
And God 430 created 1254 great 1419 whales 8577, and every living 2416 creature 5315 that moveth 7430 , which the waters 4325 brought forth abundantly 8317 , after their kind 4327, and every winged 3671 fowl 5775 after his kind 4327: and God 430 saw 7200 that [it was] good 2896.
What I'm referring to is the word "creature", which goes with Strong's 5315. Here's what Strong's says about (Creature/5315/Nephesh):
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 5315&t=KJV
Lexicon Results
Strong's H5315 - nephesh
נֶפֶשׁ
Transliteration
nephesh
Pronunciation
neh'·fesh (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From נָפַשׁ (H5314)
TWOT Reference
1395a
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
b) living being
c) living being (with life in the blood)
d) the man himself, self, person or individual
e) seat of the appetites
f) seat of emotions and passions
g) activity of mind
1) dubious
h) activity of the will
1) dubious
i) activity of the character
1) dubious
So, according to Strong's, Nephesh refers to Humans, and certain animals. Plants are not included in Nephesh or soulish creatures.
dom wrote:
Your grammar skills are actually quite bad here. In fact, your context is actually quite bad as well. Where does it talk about animals having minds?
Dom, look at the blueletter bible link I posted. I even Highlighted "mind" so you can see for yourself that it has nothing to do with my "bad grammar skills", and "bad context". The Hebrew word "nephesh" has the meaning. I didn't randomly assign this to the word "creature" in Genesis 1:21.
In what way does the "soul" move? That doesn't even make sense.
Dom, Genesis 1:21 doesn't say the soul moves. It says God created "every living creature that moves". And again, "creature" is the Hebrew word "nephesh", which refers to soulish creatures(see Strongs reference above).
Let's go ahead and just stick to the translation here "creature". This doesn't tell us that the creature has a "soul"
Of course it does. Nephesh refers to man, and in this case, specific creatures that God created with a soul.
We have absolutely nothing to go on to say animals have "soul". If you think the "soul" is compromised of mind, will, and emotions then boy we got bigger problems.
Refer to Strong's 5315 above, and again here:
nephesh.
The text you pasted from that site quite literally says "preprogrammed". You can't argue that animals have a mind, "soul", will?, and emotion with that. That's pretty much calling them machines at this point, and that's exactly what I call them as well.
Dom, this link I posted:
http://www.reasons.org/articles/origin- ... sh-animals says :
According to the Bible, soulish life includes creatures in which God endowed mind, will, and emotions so that they can form relationships with members of their own species as well as with human beings. God designed soulish animals so that each kind serves and/or pleases humanity in its own distinct way. The Bible claims that before humans even existed soulish animals were preprogrammed by God to relate to and to serve and please human beings.1
This means that God preprogrammed certain creatures to relate to and to serve and please human beings. If you read it in context, it's not saying that these nephesh creatures are preprogrammed to act without mind will and emotions, like machines.
When Christ sai (NASB)Matthew 11:28-29
"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. [29] "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
When Christ said "Soul", what is he referring to? And where does the "soul" rest?
Dom, Jesus is talking specifically about people in the Matthew 11:28-29 verse you quoted. He's not referring to "nephesh creatures" here. Just "nephesh" humans.
