Evidence for God from Science

I sort of have a broad and vague relationship question. Im 21 and my girlfriend is 18. This is the first serious relationship either of us have had. We've been dating for about 6 weeks now and things are going great. We just had our first kiss and have started getting more physical since then. I guess my question is about desire/lust/physical interactions. How do I approach this? Where are the lines I should draw? I am very much attracted to her (which I think is fine) but it's hard to tell if thats healthy attraction or unhealthy lust/desire/sexual thoughts. Is passionate kissing ok? What about toching her arms/back? Is this going too far? I want to be prepared and plan ahead so I dont hurt my girlfriend or myself. I want the physical contact while still holding to my standards, morals and my integrtity.
Any advice will be very much appreciated. Thanks


-Justin

You already crossed the line when you grabbed each other and kissed. But...who cares? you're not Christian.

Why are you even asking for advice from Christians anyway?

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:You already crossed the line when you grabbed each other and kissed. But...who cares? you're not Christian.

Why are you even asking for advice from Christians anyway?

FL

Thanks for that kind, well thought out, helpful answer. You are a perfect example of a Christian who is making a difference in the world. With wonderful people like you representing Christianity it's hard to see why people think you Christian folk are hateful and stupid. Thanks again my friend! You really changed my life with that reply!

SonofAletheia wrote:Thanks for that kind, well thought out, helpful answer. You are a perfect example of a Christian who is making a difference in the world. With wonderful people like you representing Christianity it's hard to see why people think you Christian folk are hateful and stupid. Thanks again my friend! You really changed my life with that reply!

Great sarcasm! keep it for a career as a stand-up comedian. You didn't answer my question,

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Why are you even asking for advice from Christians anyway?

Why would an unbeliever like you even care about a Christian point-of-view on relationships?

FL

SonofAletheia wrote:I sort of have a broad and vague relationship question. Im 21 and my girlfriend is 18. This is the first serious relationship either of us have had. We've been dating for about 6 weeks now and things are going great. We just had our first kiss and have started getting more physical since then.

I guess my question is about desire/lust/physical interactions. How do I approach this? Where are the lines I should draw? I am very much attracted to her (which I think is fine) but it's hard to tell if that’s healthy attraction or unhealthy lust/desire/sexual thoughts. Is passionate kissing ok?

What about touching her arms/back? Is this going too far?

I want to be prepared and plan ahead so I don’t hurt my girlfriend or myself. I want the physical contact while still holding to my standards, morals and my integrity.

Any advice will be very much appreciated. Thanks

-Justin

There are several points to consider.

First, do you love her enough to settle down with her the rest of your life?

Secondly, what do your personal standards, morals and integrity say about the first point?

Thirdly, do you know the difference between feelings, emotions, sex, desires, and what actual love is?

Fourthly, if she becomes pregnant will you remain committed to raise the child together for the next 20 years?

Fifthly, would she answer the above questions as you would?
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Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Why are you even asking for advice from Christians anyway?

Why would an unbeliever like you even care about a Christian point-of-view on relationships?

FL

And you didnt answer my question. What in the world is with you? You sound like a bitter old man.
I don't consider myself a Christian just because I have not done enough research on the subject (The Canon and the Resurrection) The study is going well though and I think I will change my stance very soon. Interestingly enough, its not the Christian doctrine itself thats a huge problem for me, its more the Christians themselves that disgust me... They tend to be arrogant, ignorant and generally rude.

You should really reconsider how you approach new people on these forums. You give a terrible first impression. Christians already havea bad reputation and people like you unfortunately help that stereotype very much.

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First, do you love her enough to settle down with her the rest of your life?
I think so. I'm not 100% sure but who is, right?

Secondly, what do your personal standards, morals and integrity say about the first point?
About settling down? Well, I think once one is married you should do everything (within reason) to stay together through easy or tough times

Thirdly, do you know the difference between feelings, emotions, sex, desires, and what actual love is?
Honestly thats what i am struggling with right now. Words like love and feelings are somewhat ambiguous and the media today doesn't help clarify them.

Fourthly, if she becomes pregnant will you remain committed to raise the child together for the next 20 years?
Yes of course. But we have already both talked about no premarital sex.

Fifthly, would she answer the above questions as you would?
She would probably be more confident in our relationship than me. It seems like she already has made up her mind about me whereas I'm still not completely sure.

SonofAletheia wrote:And you didnt answer my question. What in the world is with you? You sound like a bitter old man.

Actually, I'm a crusty old man. Also, I did answer your question about relationships: I said you were off to a wrong start, essentially. To expand on this idea, if you were a sprinter in the Olympics, you'd have jumped the start. If your relationship were a ship, you'd be in danger of running aground.

SonofAletheia wrote: Interestingly enough, its not the Christian doctrine itself thats a huge problem for me, its more the Christians themselves that disgust me... They tend to be arrogant, ignorant and generally rude.

I'm touched! you are speaking of me! Unfortunately, I know that is a bunch of bull. If you are honest, you'll recognize that some people are arrogant, ignorant and rude, no matter what they believe in. And, if the ''Christian doctrine'' is so attractive that you are considering adopting it, why would you if it produces

SonofAletheia wrote: Christians [...] that [...] tend to be arrogant, ignorant and generally rude.

Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense, so I must assume that you are answering in the heat of emotion. Avoid that and it will serve you well in your relationship with Whatshername.

Lastly, I like your Fourthly answer to B.W. If you can keep it up - if - maybe you still can salvage your future with Whatshername, even after your false start.

Good luck!

FL

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SonofAletheia wrote: First, do you love her enough to settle down with her the rest of your life?
I think so. I'm not 100% sure but who is, right?

Secondly, what do your personal standards, morals and integrity say about the first point?
About settling down? Well, I think once one is married you should do everything (within reason) to stay together through easy or tough times

Thirdly, do you know the difference between feelings, emotions, sex, desires, and what actual love is?
Honestly thats what i am struggling with right now. Words like love and feelings are somewhat ambiguous and the media today doesn't help clarify them.

Fourthly, if she becomes pregnant will you remain committed to raise the child together for the next 20 years?
Yes of course. But we have already both talked about no premarital sex.

Fifthly, would she answer the above questions as you would?
She would probably be more confident in our relationship than me. It seems like she already has made up her mind about me whereas I'm still not completely sure.

I am glad you answered the questions.

You say you struggle with the third question I posed to you:

Thirdly, do you know the difference between feelings, emotions, sex, desires, and what actual love is?

If you look at your answers to questions one, two, four, and five as you admit to not understanding what love really is. So let's look at your answers and see what love is about and learn:

First answer to the first question you said: I think so. I'm not 100% sure but who is, right?

You think so – but not 100 percent sure - you either are or are not. Any doubts you have appear toward you and not her.

So your first lesson about what Love is – is commitment – you may have to deal with some of your personal fears, reasons for wavering in a committed relationship, selfishness, etc, so you can actually love – true Love commits to the best for the other person and not what you can get out of another. Lack that – relationships just will not last..

Your Second answer: About settling down? Well, I think once one is married you should do everything (within reason) to stay together through easy or tough times

This is your second lesson on what true love is: True Love would not have a clause – within reason - attached to it. The question was to you – would you stay with her and her you through thick and thin, better or worse, help each other, forgive each other after getting on each other’s nerves? Avoiding suspicions – not abandoning each other when you both lose the good looks and charm for another? That’s Love. It takes time to develop and you both must be willing to take the time to grow together… Love is willing to stay together and there are no Within Reasons attached to it. Are you willing to commit to her and her to you – for the life of you both? That’s love.

Your Fourth answer: Yes of course. But we have already both talked about no premarital sex.

Engage in any type of petting, and such – well many babies came into the world due to that as it leads to a loss of control –often! So you must learn the other aspect of Love Responsibility and Respect. Responsibility to the child and Her – to nurture both and cherish both even when you are burn out, feeling tired, long day at work – you must cherish, nurture, build up. This is where many men fail. As men in this western society – we are rarely taught how to be men – who take responsibility to cherish and nurture a family. Love does not seek its own ways. Do you have that regard toward her and her you? Respect her and her toward you?

Your Fifth answer:She would probably be more confident in our relationship than me. It seems like she already has made up her mind about me whereas I'm still not completely sure.

True Love would be sure. That is the next lesson on love you need to learn as a man. Sp please take some take the time and think about Love as commitment, responsibility, respect, cherishing, nurturing, building up, believing in another person and she in you, deal with your own insecurities, and personal issues, through Jesus Christ in your heart. You’ll do well learning what Love is.

So now to your third answer here: Honestly thats what i am struggling with right now. Words like love and feelings are somewhat ambiguous and the media today doesn't help clarify them.

At least you are honest. You do not know what Love is. Many reasons for this – maybe divorce affect your family or hers, maybe not? Maybe there was a lot of parental fighting – I do not know your background.

Maybe you have a fear of rejection or an issues of abandonment you need to deal with – again I do not know what you need to work through and that is the next lesson of Love – you love her and she loves you – you would mature in dealing with any psychological issues that keeps your love in a lust, or my needs first and only, area which will quench love..

So as you learn to deal with your personal issues mature into that - what’s best for her and possibly a child – I can do this – love with commitment, responsibility, cherishing, nurturing, respecting, building up, believing in her and she you, and you have discovered love. Are you willing?

The best way to discover love is for both of you to know who Jesus Christ is and let him heal your hurts, and mature your love for each other. You appear to me to have a fear of commitment and in need of some work on the inside that only the Holy Spirit can do.

I had the privilege to be able to lead my own older sister to the Lord today and would like to lead you as well. You need to know Christ Jesus as he can teach and lead you and guide you and clean you up and heal you and teach you what it means to be a man. Would you like this?
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One of the biggest issues for young people is being able to distinguish between love and lust and no, it doesn't get easier with age, LOL !
You need to understand that there are TWP people in this relationship and advice for YOU is only HALF the solution.
She may not be too keen about this or any advice for that matter.
Love, like the song says, is a wonderful thing and what makes it even more wonderful is when it is being expressed and enjoyed by two people that love each other not because they have to, or are suppose to act in a certain way.
There is no need to rush or to jump the gun to do anything beyond what you are comfortable with.
Relax, take it easy and enjoy being with EACH OTHER before you have to start to think about being WITH each other.
There is so much more to love than sex, so MUCH more and that is what you are learning now.
The reason Christians always advice to wait and to be sure and to only have sex with the one you know is the one you want to be with for the rest of your life is because THAT kind of LOVE IS long lasting because it is based on everything BUT sex.
Sex is fleeting, love making is eternal.
On a good day you can have sex for 30-40 min, but LOVING each other is forever.
Understanding what I am saying here?

Look, premaritial sex and whether it is wrong is up to YOU to decide, just as it is up to everyone else, it is a matter of personal conscience, between you and God BUT realize why are are OR are NOT doing it.
And the answer should always be love.

SonofAletheia wrote:I sort of have a broad and vague relationship question. Im 21 and my girlfriend is 18. This is the first serious relationship either of us have had. We've been dating for about 6 weeks now and things are going great. We just had our first kiss and have started getting more physical since then. I guess my question is about desire/lust/physical interactions. How do I approach this? Where are the lines I should draw? I am very much attracted to her (which I think is fine) but it's hard to tell if thats healthy attraction or unhealthy lust/desire/sexual thoughts. Is passionate kissing ok? What about toching her arms/back? Is this going too far? I want to be prepared and plan ahead so I dont hurt my girlfriend or myself. I want the physical contact while still holding to my standards, morals and my integrtity.
Any advice will be very much appreciated. Thanks

-Justin

Before I say anything God works with us each on an individual level.

Regardless of whatever mistakes we make God can use them for good. But your heart must be for Him, such that you care about His design, purpose for us and just Him.

So ultimately, God designed us to be paired with one person.

Understand that there are also different types and stages of love. The one you two are likely experiencing for each other is Eros. It is the most powerful, in that it is so strong. Almost nothing can stand in its way -- beware anyone who tries to dissuade you from each other when Eros is present. Being so intense it is also the most dangerous and destructive. It is what makes you feel you two are "meant to be", "soul mates" that sex would be the sealing of the love and attraction that exists between you. It's role is to bring two people together. Once it's done its job though, it abandons you and leaves you stranded and you begin to notice things that annoy you about the one you "loved" so much.

So, say Eros lead to sex and it now abandons you (which inevitably happens)... now you start to notice things about this girl that annoy you. It might be her bahaviour, habits, or her beliefs which you argue against and find really off-putting... well now you have a high chance of splitting. And if you do, God's intention and design for you being joined to one other person is now thwarted.

On the other hand, it could be you two will put aside what you find annoying about each other and a stronger, more authentic and self-giving love/s will increase in your relationship. Agape, which will love the person regardless of circumstance or feeling. Perhaps your affections will remain and strong friendship and growing together will begin... this is where Eros should lead...

But in today's society which is very egocentric and values freedom to have the most pleasure in life without responsibility or consequence, it normally just leads to indescrimate self-serving sex. And indescriminate sex at the expense of unborn human beings who are killed due to their intrustion into the life of someone who wants to live life without consequences (sorry to introduce another issue -- this is a separate issue).

The question is, what will you do? Noone can answer that for you.