Evidence for God from Science

There are a lot of misconceptions about what the Bible says about creation. For example, many people think that the Bible says that God created the entire universe in six days. But is this really true? We need to take a careful look both at what the Bible says and what it doesn’t say.

The first verse consists of a declaration that God created everything.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1 ESV

The account of the six days in which our world was created begins with this statement in verse two:

The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Our planet already existed at the beginning of the first day. It is described as being in darkness and covered by water. The six days do not describe the actual creation of our earth but its transformation from a chaotic condition into one which supports life.

We are not told whether the earth had just been created or had existed for some time. Bible believers are divided between two groups over this question. Young earth creationists believe that the earth had just been created in this chaotic state. Some old earth creationists believe that the world had originally been created perfect but that there was some catastrophe which brought about the condition which existed in verse two. The Bible ends by describing the creation of a new earth to replace an old one that had been corrupted by sin. Perhaps it starts the same way.

When it comes to understanding what the Bible teaches it doesn’t really matter which view of creation is true. Our present earth was created was six days just a few thousand years ago. All life, including human life, was created by God and didn’t come about by any process of evolution. The fossil evidence which some consider evidence of evolution is the result of the worldwide flood in Noah’s day. The only point of disagreement is whether or not the planet we live on was in existence before the six day creation.

One question that arises is whether these are literal days or merely indefinite periods of time. On the first day light appears and God separates the light from the darkness, calling them day and night. The day concludes with this statement, “And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.” Each subsequent day ends with a similar statement. It is obvious that each day consists of one rotation of the earth on its axis, so these were literal days.

Whether these were days were 24 hours long as our days are now would depend on whether the speed of the earth’s rotation was the same then as it is today. There is an event in the Bible that might possibly have brought about a change. The flood in Noah’s time was part of a cataclysmic event that radically changed the geography of the earth. For the waters to cover the earth, the topography must have been been different from what it was today. A description of how it was changed at the end of the flood is found in Psalm 104:6-9:

You covered it with the deep as with a garment; the waters stood above the mountains. At your rebuke they fled; at the sound of your thunder they took to flight. The mountains rose, the valleys sank down to the place that you appointed for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass, so that they might not again cover the earth.

It is possible that with changes of this magnitude the speed of the earth’s rotation could have been changed. The first civilizations that developed after the flood had calendars with 360 days. Perhaps before the flood the year was in fact 360 days long and the simply retained their old calendars.

The six days only describe what happened on earth and tell us nothing about the rest of the universe. The sun was already in existence on the first day because the earth began receiving light from it then. But we don’t know whether the sun was created on the first day or whether it existed before that but there was some barrier which kept its light from reaching the earth.

Genesis 1:14 seems to contradict this.

And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth.

But if you read it carefully you will find that it doesn’t actually say anything about the creation of the sun and the moon. It only says that God made lights in the sky, not that he created the bodies that produced these lights. The presence of light shows that the sun already existed so there must have been some kind of cloud cover which kept the sun from being seen but still allowed its light to reach the earth. This was now removed so that the sun, moon, and stars could now be seen.

Exodus 20:11 is sometimes cited as proof that the entire universe was included in the six days.

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

But the word heaven has more than one meaning in the Bible. It is used to describe the atmosphere, outer space, and the home of God. Genesis 1:1 apparently includes all three meanings, but verses 6 to 8 use the word only in the first sense.

And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

The word earth also has more than one meaning. It can mean the planet we live on or it can mean dry land. In verses 1 and 2 it means the planet. But it has the second meaning in verse 10.

God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

It is obviously used in the second sense in Exodus because it speaks of the heaven, the earth, and the sea. If it were speaking of the planet the sea would be included in it and wouldn’t need to be mentioned separately.

The verse from Exodus is obviously using the words “heaven” and “earth” as they are used within the account of the six days rather than as they are used in verse one. It says that God made the air, the land, and the seas, and everything in them. In addition, Psalm 115:16 says,

The heavens are the Lord’s heavens,
but the earth he has given to the children of man.

Since God has given only the earth to man it seems logical that this is the only part of creation that God would describe in detail.

Chapter 2 begins by telling us that God rested on the seventh day. This statement is followed by a description of the creation of the first two humans. We were told previously that God had created them on the sixth day and given them dominion over all the rest of the life on the earth. Now he describes their creation in more detail.

Some people claim that this account contradicts the account in chapter one because it says that plants and animals were created after the first man was created.

The belief that plants were created later is based on this statement in verse five:

No bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground.

It doesn’t say that no plants had yet been created but only speaks of two kinds of plants, those called bushes of the field and small plants of the field. This obviously refers only to plants that need to be cultivated by humans in order to grow.

The belief that animals were created later is based on the statement in verse nineteen that God formed animals and birds out of the ground and brought them to the man to be named. But the verse says:

Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them.

This section is exclusively about the first man and woman and other parts of the creation are mentioned only as they are related to their creation.

The creation account in Genesis 1 and 2 can be divided into three parts. The first verse says that God created everything. Genesis 1:2 to 2:3 gives a detailed description of one part of this creation, the world we live in. It took six days and was followed by a day of rest. This is simply one part of the creation described in the first verse. Man was created on the sixth day and the rest of chapter two is a detailed description of his creation. We aren’t told anything about the creation of the rest of the universe.

Have you read my thread of John Walton's view on Genesis?

PaulSacramento wrote:Have you read my thread of John Walton's view on Genesis?

Yes

First and foremost, says Walton, we have to approach Genesis for what it is, which is an ancient text.

I agree with that. But what is the subject of this text? The obvious answer is that it is a historical record of how everything began. It plainly says that our earth was formed in six days so if we accept the Bible as being the inspired word of God we must believe that that is exactly what happened.

I agree with that. But what is the subject of this text? The obvious answer is that it is a historical record of how everything began. It plainly says that our earth was formed in six days so if we accept the Bible as being the inspired word of God we must believe that that is exactly what happened.

No, it plainly says, six "yoms". What's not so plain, is the length of those "yoms".

theophilus wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Have you read my thread of John Walton's view on Genesis?

Yes

First and foremost, says Walton, we have to approach Genesis for what it is, which is an ancient text.

I agree with that. But what is the subject of this text? The obvious answer is that it is a historical record of how everything began. It plainly says that our earth was formed in six days so if we accept the Bible as being the inspired word of God we must believe that that is exactly what happened.

It is a historical THEOLOGICAL text.

theophilus wrote:It plainly says that our earth was formed in six days

If you read it in the English translation yes that what it says, but if you read it in Ancient Hebrew/Aramaic it's not quite so plain.

Most people who read English translations of the Bible assume that the English words have the same meaning as the original languages in which the Bible was written (Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament, and Greek for the New Testament). In fact, the original biblical languages contained many fewer words than modern English, which means that the words in those languages had more different meanings. In the Genesis 1 creation account, each "day" ends as "evening and morning 'n' day," where "n" is the day's number. Although many Christians claim this makes the days exactly 24-hours in length, the Hebrew word translated "day" in English actually has three literal translations; the daylight portion of a 24-hour day, a 24-hour day, and a long, unspecified period of time (as in "day of the dinosaurs"). The Hebrew word translated "evening" also means "sunset," "night" or "ending of the day." The Hebrew word translated "morning" also means "sunrise," "coming of light," "beginning of the day," or "dawning," with possible metaphoric usage. Our English expression: "The dawning of an age" serves to illustrate this point. The intended meaning of the word should be determined from the context. More information and examples can be found in our article

Taken from main site article http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... earth.html



Dan

RickD wrote:No, it plainly says, six "yoms". What's not so plain, is the length of those "yoms".

Each "yom" consists of an evening and a morning, so the length of each one is the time is takes the earth to rotate on it's axis.

theophilus wrote:

RickD wrote:No, it plainly says, six "yoms". What's not so plain, is the length of those "yoms".

Each "yom" consists of an evening and a morning, so the length of each one is the time is takes the earth to rotate on it's axis.

That's one interpretation. Another interpretation is that the evenings and mornings are there to show a beginning and ending of each creation "day".

theophilus wrote:

RickD wrote:No, it plainly says, six "yoms". What's not so plain, is the length of those "yoms".

Each "yom" consists of an evening and a morning, so the length of each one is the time is takes the earth to rotate on it's axis.

Evening and morning can also be translated as dawning of an age and ending of an age.

Did you read my post, it explained it in the quote from the main site.

theophilus wrote:There are a lot of misconceptions about what the Bible says about creation. For example, many people think that the Bible says that God created the entire universe in six days. But is this really true? We need to take a careful look both at what the Bible says and what it doesn’t say.

indeed

theophilus wrote:The account of the six days in which our world was created begins with this statement in verse two:

The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Our planet already existed at the beginning of the first day. It is described as being in darkness and covered by water. The six days do not describe the actual creation of our earth but its transformation from a chaotic condition into one which supports life.

This would be incorrect. Our planet did not exist at the beginning of the first day.You have assumed that when you read the word earth in the second verse it is describing a formation we associate with the material form we understand as a planetary body. This is a common error in the conveyance of information and in translational understanding. In the genesis account when God is reffering to 'earth' he has given the exact defining of what he means;

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth

Any dry land is earth. Mars is made of earth, venus is made of earth, our planetary form that we exist upon is made of earth. Dry land is the organisation of the solid pre-existing material into an arrangement God called 'dry'. Apparently in its normal state solids and liquids were intermingled without a specific organisation. They had no formational 'design'. When he separated the solids form the liquid he imposed his will on what was existing to shape it into a new design. The planetary 'earth' came into designed existence in this verse;

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

we can confirm this concept by refering back to Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void... To be without form and void does not describe a planetary body. It describes a conceptual future arrangement of solids (earth) that are currently without a designed arrangement. If as some assert that the earth was already in the shape of a planetary body but simply covered in water then God could not have called it 'earth' since his own definition of earth being dry land did not become dry land until he commanded it to occur on the third day.

theophilus wrote:Genesis 1:14 seems to contradict this...
But if you read it carefully you will find that it doesn’t actually say anything about the creation of the sun and the moon. It only says that God made lights in the sky, not that he created the bodies that produced these lights. The presence of light shows that the sun already existed so there must have been some kind of cloud cover which kept the sun from being seen but still allowed its light to reach the earth. This was now removed so that the sun, moon, and stars could now be seen.

No. incorrect. The creation of the sun and moon cannot be asserted until you can assert a designed arrangement. The sun is not made of earth, it is essentialy 72 percent hydrogen gas and 26 percent helium. It is a precision arrangement in space of specific types of atoms which would not fit within the observation given in genesis 1:2 which describes the existence of matter without specific organization. Further God specifically describes the properties of the sun being formed in;

Gen 1:14-18 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The sun is the 'only' created light that divides day from night. It is used to measure days and years and God specifically describes this greater light (the sun) to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. So there were no designed bodies producing light before day 4. Properly understood all light prior to the fourth day was an emmanation from the action of God on matter during the 'time' he worked to organize matter into specific arrangements. Light does not have to come from a fusion reaction. Light can occur at any time when there is the transfer of energy from one point in space to another point. An arc welder produces enough light to permanantly blind you just as sunlight could if you stare at it too long and yet it is not a fusion reaction like the sun. Since God is described as light it is quite realistic to rationalise that light at the beginning was energy coming from God being applied to primordial matter to affect it arrangement and this transfer of energy created the effect of illumination. Note this point being made just before God makes the scriptural reference to light;

Gen 1:2 ...And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

What do you suppose this means? If God is only spirit how does spirit 'move' without being physical? What do we know of that has no physical form but can move through matter? ....electricity, energy, power.... Without the electrical action in our brain we cease to exist. All matter is ultimately described by the amount of energy it is composed of. It took energy to form atoms. Energy / power existed before energized organizations of matter. we know this is true because ALL matter as we currently understand it is losing energy constantly. At some point all matter will return to its natural / normal state that it existed in before having been energized. Scientists describe this state as thermodynamic equilibrium.

All I can say, is the earth and we on it have been created. The time is of no concern whether Dinosaurs existed which they have, before man was able to write about his/her own existance in the most popular book in the world. We have God "period" and believe in God and forget what science has created and when it happened and how it happened. Does it make us sleep better at night, Will you wake up a different person knowing more or less of our evolution and how God created all of this. Take Genesis for what really is happening everyday, the miraculous Childbirth. That is creation that science is still figuring out today until you die. Darkness, a mass of nothing, a firmament, Light and dark, an evolution of creation that creates a New Born Child becoming who you are today to now question your own existance. How ironic we are to question a perfert form created from a sperm cell to think as we do, all different DNA, all different fingerprints, free choice and than one day a bible is written explaining our existance as I would understand it.
If you want to live with God as your father or as an athiest, you only have 7 days (24 hours) to make your life into whatever you want. You go to sleep and wake up and do it all over again. Your choice, your life. If anything more, take God's example and rest one of those 7 days.
All God can give you is 6 mornings and 6 nights and call them 6 days to be fruitful and multiply and rest and enjoy your works on the 7th day.
TGGIL