Evidence for God from Science

It is a common belief among Christians that when a person dies he immediately goes either to heaven or to hell and remains there for all eternity. A careful study of the Bible shows that this is not correct, although it is very close to the truth.

When someone who has been forgiven thru faith in Christ dies he immediately goes to be with Christ, and Christ is now in heaven.

One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Luke 23:39-43 ESV

But the Bible teaches that one day Christ will return to reign over the earth, and when this happens all the believers will return with him. In Revelation 20:1-4 we learn that God will create a new earth for people to live in.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

God created humans to live on this earth. Because of sin we leave earth thru dying and if we are Christians we then go to heaven. But this is only a temporary dwelling place until God restores the earth to what he intended it to be. The new earth will be inhabited by new humans, who have been born again by faith in Jesus Christ.

All those whose sins have not been forgiven will be condemned to spend eternity in hell, but if you read Revelation 20:11-15 you will find that they will not go there until after the final rebellion at the end of the millennium.

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

So where are they until then? In Luke 16 Jesus tells of a rich man who died and went to a place called Hades.

The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

This is a temporary place for the unsaved to stay until their final judgment. When Jesus spoke of hell in other places he used the word Gehenna, not Hades. Unfortunately some Bible translators have used the word “hell” for both of these places and this has caused some confusion about this subject.

In one sense, the popular belief is correct. Those who are saved go immediately to a state of eternal happiness and the unsaved go to a place of eternal torment. But when studying the Bible it is important to study all the details to make sure you are interpreting it correctly.

I don't believe that when we die we go to heaven rather the kingdom comes to us. The kingdom of God descends from heaven. David certainly was a saved man and scripture clearly states in Acts 2:34 he is "not ascended into heaven". Hebrews 11 the faith chapter, Heb 11:13 "these all died" Abel, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham. Heb 11:32 "And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets" Daniel is implied in the next verse. Also "the prophets" Elijah certainly was a prophet. Scripture gives me a clear understanding that they died. Heb 11:39 "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received NOT the promise" Heb 11:40 "that they without us should not be made perfect"
The statement "they without us should NOT be made perfect" means that we all gather together at the same time to put on the immortality at the same time. The last trumpet sounds then our eternal life reward is given not before.
Our eternal destiny is to be resurrected and given the reward of eternal life with a new glorified body and to reign with our Lord Jesus for 1,000 years. After this Jesus gives this all back to his Father who is John 17:3 "the only true God" 1 Cor 15:24-28 "so that God can be all in all" If we are already alive and well living in heaven would mean we could not be resurrected from the dead because we are not really dead. As the serpent said to the woman "you will not surely die" The popular belief that we are immortal before being made immortal is not found in scripture.

A careful study of the Bible shows that this is not correct, although it is very close to the truth.

When pronouncing such a verdicts, please avoid using lost performative (i.e. not stating who does something and by which standards).

It is difficult to respond, till we know:

1. A careful study - by which standards and by whom? (Published, reviewed, etc.)
2. Not correct - what does it mean... entirely false or accurate to some degree?
3. Very close to the truth - again, how close and to which truth? established by whom?

I do not think evaluative stgatemens are necessary to establishes your position and make a point. Should you want to constructively criticize, please do not hide behind non-specific generalities. It seems that your post is very interesting and you do not have to use evaluating statements to share what it is that YOU think. Cheers

It is an interesting topic, and one good to discuss since it is something we look forward to.

There are many understandings and nuances. I've actually forgotten what I last believed on this topic, but you talking reminded me of the some of the issues I explored. Maybe I can rediscover what I believed in my previous posts here.

However, now, I just take comfort in knowing that God knows how it all is. If in the afterlife I discover my hope in Christ was in vain, then utter dread will befall me. Otherwise, once it is directly confirmed Christ's gift is true, then I don't much care where I go whether it is a temporary hold spot, I enter some kind of soul sleep, or immediately enter into God's presence. As long as Christ will be by my side then that is what really matters for me.

But the Bible teaches that one day Christ will return to reign over the earth, and when this happens all the believers will return with him. In Revelation 20:1-4 we learn that God will create a new earth for people to live in.

Where does it say ALL believers will return with him?

Rev 20 is speaking of the time after the 1,000 year reign with Christ Rev 20:1-4
After that time is when the son of God returns the kingdom to his God, because it was the God of Jesus who originally gave it to him 1 Cor 15:24-28
Just continue on to Rev 20:7-10 for some context

When we try to interpret scripture what we must first do is understand WHO wrote it and to WHOM and WHEN and WHERE.
AN example is Hades and Sheol.
When a 2st century Jew used those terms when speaking to fellow 1st century Jew, what did He mean? How did they understand it?
It is also crucial to understand that when dealing with the afterlife, 1st century Jews had more than one view on it.
Contrast the Pharisees with the Saudecees.
Add to this the fact that when the writers of the Gospels and Paul and James and Jude and so forth, when they wrote that also aimed it at a Hellenistc audience and used points of references that THEY would know very well BUT that we out our own preconceived notions on.
We can interpret the scripture already knowing what we WANT them to say, that is how you get a mess of confusion.

theophilus wrote:...In one sense, the popular belief is correct. Those who are saved go immediately to a state of eternal happiness and the unsaved go to a place of eternal torment. But when studying the Bible it is important to study all the details to make sure you are interpreting it correctly.

These verse from Isaiah set forth a principle that substantiates your comment about where the unsaved go immediately after they mortally die:

Isaiah 24:21 ESV, On that day the LORD will punish the host of heaven, in heaven, and the kings of the earth, on the earth.
Isaiah 24:22 ESV, They will be gathered together as prisoners in a pit; they will be shut up in a prison, and after many days they will be punished.

Jesus referred to this place in Luke 16:19-30

This is due to how God designed human beings - as Eccl chapter Three points out in the following verse:

Eccl 3:11 ESV, He (God) has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.

Verse 14 verifies that eternity - was placed in the human heart because...whatever God does endures forever.

Eccl 3:14 ESV, I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him.

Here context is God's birthing an immortal nature into man at their birth. This would place great value on the value of life that God gives to all humanity. Recall that there is no partiality with God and He is a God of the living and not the dead. All his gifts, promises, and callings are irrevocable. Only God can bring such into judgment as the rest of Eccl 3:16-22 states and points to Christ Jesus as the one who will tell of what comes in the afterlife (Luke 16:19-30 for example)

For those blind to this fact in essence are saying - that consequences for ones acts do not really matter; therefore, there is really no value to human life that God granted, called, promised, and given to humanity. Instead they demand from God that He must acquiesce to their peculiar notions of mercy that grants soul sleep, or annihilationism, which in turn contradict God’s very own gifts and callings of life to man. Thus making God himself cheapen the value of the very immortal nature of life he granted to human beings and then forced to bow to human will. Something God will never do. Think about it.

The value what Jesus did upon that Cross takes on a more profound meaning because how God values the kind of life he births into each man and woman.
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Been away for quite a while but I see this topic keeps popping up.

As I and others have debated before, we don't interpret 'eternity being placed in the heart of man' to mean immortality as a gift that God gives permanently to every man. Immortality is conditional. This best lines up with the character of God to not torture those in hell with endless torment.

Well, I'm not about to get back into this debate but there are many of us believers who do not view the eternal destiny of the wicked as an endless state of torment. And I know this is bothersome to other believers who want to maintain this belief. It is bothersome to us also that they do and how it is interpreted as reflecting the character of God.

So, I better bail out here but there are other scripturally backed views on our eternal destiny. The main thing is to be a believer and this will not affect our destiny either way.