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Heaven
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:33 pm
by ultimate777
Do we go to heaven when we die, or do we go all at once at the end, or what?
If a baby dies, does he or she go to heaven as an infant, or an adult? How about fetuses?
Re: Heaven
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:09 am
by 1stjohn0666
We go all at once at the end.
Re: Heaven
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:01 am
by B. W.
ultimate777 wrote:Do we go to heaven when we die, or do we go all at once at the end, or what?
If a baby dies, does he or she go to heaven as an infant, or an adult? How about fetuses?
What does the bible say...
Php 1:23, 24 - I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. NIV
2 Co 5:8, 9 - We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. NIV
Eccl 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. NKJV
John 17:24 - "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world."
The answer is yes - heaven for believers and little children.
As for 1stJohnny, he is from a cult group and does not know the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead very well - only one small part - not the whole. Don't let him or others deceive you on this matter. There is heaven and a hell, right now. Ask yourself if Jesus was pulling yours and every ones leg in Luke 16:19-30 and Luke 23:43 ....
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Re: Heaven
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:09 am
by 1stjohn0666
The doctrine of the resurrection of the dead happens "after" the last trumpet sounds NOT before. 1 Cor 15:52, Rev 11:15-18. If you find a resurrection of the dead "before" the last trumpet sounds let me know. I truly love this subject.
Re: Heaven
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:41 am
by B. W.
1stjohn0666 wrote:The doctrine of the resurrection of the dead happens "after" the last trumpet sounds NOT before. 1 Cor 15:52, Rev 11:15-18. If you find a resurrection of the dead "before" the last trumpet sounds let me know. I truly love this subject.
You only know a very small part of this doctrine and certainly not all of it. How do I know? Easy - your background involvement and reliance upon anti-Christian cults material of the The Way International splinter groups and JW doctrines which you have posted here within various thread topics.
The reason for the 'body' resurrection is not known to you in any great degree, because you cannot fathom the plain proven tri-unity of man's oneness and God's. So, it is a waste of time to toss these pearls to those who seek to distort and twist the truth of Christ who are fishing for converts.
And by the way - in Revelation 11:15-18 where did the 24 elders come from and where did the two witnesses go in Rev 11:12 if soul sleep is supposed to be the norm?
And 1st Johnny - you do not confess this either -
1 Tim 3:16 NKJV fsee the LITV version here: And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in flesh, was justified in Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
1 John 4:2, 3 - By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. NKJV
Note also:
Micah 5:2, Jer 23:5, 6 . Col 1:16, 17, 18, Rev 1:17, 18. John 1:14
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Re: Heaven
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:47 am
by PaulSacramento
There is "life after death" and then there is "life after life after death":
Life after death is our spirit with God.
Life after life after death, is our resurrected bodies living on earth, heaven on earth to be precise.
Re: Heaven
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:46 am
by ultimate777
PaulSacramento wrote:There is "life after death" and then there is "life after life after death":
Life after death is our spirit with God.
Life after life after death, is our resurrected bodies living on earth, heaven on earth to be precise.
This is to everybody, not just you, Paul. After all these replies I am more confused than ever. And one of my questions was not even addressed 
But its nice to know I'm not the only one who ever flamed anyone here 
Re: Heaven
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:39 am
by PaulSacramento
ultimate777 wrote:PaulSacramento wrote:There is "life after death" and then there is "life after life after death":
Life after death is our spirit with God.
Life after life after death, is our resurrected bodies living on earth, heaven on earth to be precise.
This is to everybody, not just you, Paul. After all these replies I am more confused than ever. And one of my questions was not even addressed
But its nice to know I'm not the only one who ever flamed anyone here
I was just trying to make clear that there are TWO events in regards to "life after death" that the bibel speaks of:
What happens to our spirit and soul when we die.
What happens to them and our bodies at the resurrection.
BUT to answer your question:
When we die, our spirit returns to God.
Re: Heaven
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:57 am
by Sam1995
Taking a quick look at what the Bible says in John 14!
[“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.” - John 14:1-4 NIV]
Just to throw a bit of a "spanner in the works" what are your views on this particular piece of scripture? Are we saved by grace through confessing our belief in God and Jesus Christ as Lord? Or is there more to it than that? I guess we could also reference the "Narrow door" here [Luke 13:24 NIV] and what exactly Jesus means when He says "many of you will try to enter and not be able to."
Particularly the parts in bold, whaddaya think? I'd love to have a better insight into what this actually means, so a positive response would be brilliant!
God bless,
SB
Re: Heaven
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:44 pm
by ultimate777
Sam1995 wrote:Taking a quick look at what the Bible says in John 14!
[“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.” - John 14:1-4 NIV]
Just to throw a bit of a "spanner in the works" what are your views on this particular piece of scripture? Are we saved by grace through confessing our belief in God and Jesus Christ as Lord? Or is there more to it than that? I guess we could also reference the "Narrow door" here [Luke 13:24 NIV] and what exactly Jesus means when He says "many of you will try to enter and not be able to."
Particularly the parts in bold, whaddaya think? I'd love to have a better insight into what this actually means, so a positive response would be brilliant!
God bless,
SB
Spanner right back at you! Answer all parts of my origional post in a way I can understand and I'll consider thinking about and answering your question.
Re: Heaven
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:44 pm
by ultimate777
Sam1995 wrote:Taking a quick look at what the Bible says in John 14!
[“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.” - John 14:1-4 NIV]
Just to throw a bit of a "spanner in the works" what are your views on this particular piece of scripture? Are we saved by grace through confessing our belief in God and Jesus Christ as Lord? Or is there more to it than that? I guess we could also reference the "Narrow door" here [Luke 13:24 NIV] and what exactly Jesus means when He says "many of you will try to enter and not be able to."
Particularly the parts in bold, whaddaya think? I'd love to have a better insight into what this actually means, so a positive response would be brilliant!
God bless,
SB
Spanner right back at you! Answer all parts of my origional post in a way I can understand and I'll consider thinking about and answering your question.
Re: Heaven
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:39 am
by Sam1995
If a baby dies, does he or she go to heaven as an infant, or an adult? How about fetuses?
Again, let's look at scripture -
[All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. - Romans 2:12-14 NIV]
Does a baby know the law? No.
To answer the question of whether or not the child will go to heaven as an infant, that again rests on whether or not they know the law which I, personally highly doubt. Therefore I trust God in his grace as a father to make the right decision as to whether or not that infant goes to heaven, but my conscience tells me that indeed they do go to heaven.
What about fetuses? Let me throw a question right at you - is a fetus a human? Or does it just have the potential to become a human?
If it just has the potential to become a human, then at what point during the growth in the womb can we call a human, a human?
SB
Re: Heaven
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:23 am
by PaulSacramento
Or we can just admit that we don't know and trust God to do the right thing.