Evidence for God from Science

in ur english class , today we watched clash of the titans
and our teacher said our beliefs were just as real as the Greeks who believed n the Greek mythology.He said t before Jesus was "supposedly" born the Greek were already writing these.. and he kept showing similarities between the clash of the titans greek mythology and the bible...Weird..what"s going on......

Well I wouldn't say that clash of the Titans is a great resource for legitimate Greek mythology, but there are many similarities between a number of different religions when it comes to themes and morals and the like. And it is true that the Greeks had their mythology and religion long before the Jewish or Christian faiths existed.

Now, are you sure your teacher was actually bashing Christianity, or just pointing out various historical similarities between world religions? It would certainly be crossing the line if he blatantly tried to bash Christianity or sway you away from it, but I would say it is completely valid to talk about or point out similarities, differences, and historical information about Christianity and other religions.

Tunde, there are similarities between history books and fairytale books, does that mean the history books are fairytales? No it doesn't.

Same goes for the Bible (which is a historical book), just because there may be similarities does not mean they are the same, in fact one would expect to find similarities.


Dan

Ivellious wrote: And it is true that the Greeks had their mythology and religion long before the Jewish or Christian faiths existed.

God the inspirer of the Bible pre dates all other man made religions, so no Greek mythology does not pre date.


Dan

Well you can say that, but there was not a single person on Earth who worshiped any monotheistic religions; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or what have you. I'm not saying that you are necessarily wrong, but it's not a religion or faith if no one knows or cares about or has faith in it. So no, I would say that the religion or faith of Christianity is not older than Greek mythology. God might be older, but not the religious belief in the Judeo-Christian God.

Ivellious wrote:Well you can say that, but there was not a single person on Earth who worshiped any monotheistic religions; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or what have you. I'm not saying that you are necessarily wrong, but it's not a religion or faith if no one knows or cares about or has faith in it. So no, I would say that the religion or faith of Christianity is not older than Greek mythology. God might be older, but not the religious belief in the Judeo-Christian God.

I see what you mean but even before Abraham, there was one prophet who worshiped a One-God or was a monotheist and that is Melchizedek, the priest who existed before Judaism. What his religion was called? I'm not certain but I am sure that the Order of Melchizedek believed in One God as Jesus is the High Priest of that Order and Melchizedek was the precursor of all the "kohen" or priests in Judaism.

He also just suddenly popped up in the Torah with no backstory whatsoever. Anyone who would like to comment on that?

~Grey

Ivellious wrote:Well you can say that, but there was not a single person on Earth who worshiped any monotheistic religions; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or what have you. I'm not saying that you are necessarily wrong, but it's not a religion or faith if no one knows or cares about or has faith in it. So no, I would say that the religion or faith of Christianity is not older than Greek mythology. God might be older, but not the religious belief in the Judeo-Christian God.

Adam the first man had a personal relationship with God, so once again all this pre dates any other man made religion.

Since you like to use labels, I would say that Adam was a Christian in the sense he knew Christ because they (God) are all one, but since I don't like labels I would say we all believe the same thing from Adam all the way through to me. Since they all had faith in God, and since God is also Son, Holy Spirit and Father, "Judeo/Christianity" would pre dates Greek mythology.


Dan

tunde1992 wrote:in ur english class , today we watched clash of the titans
and our teacher said our beliefs were just as real as the Greeks who believed n the Greek mythology.He said t before Jesus was "supposedly" born the Greek were already writing these.. and he kept showing similarities between the clash of the titans greek mythology and the bible...Weird..what"s going on......

Its an interesting view.
One has to wonder WHY the Greeks believed what they did.
One view is that the Greek Gods were just that, gods.
Some believe that all the mythology we have has a common ground, that the core is the belief that fallen angels ( the ones from Genesis and Enoch's book of watchers for example) came to earth and, wanting to be worshiped as God was, passed themselves off as Gods, they interbreed with humans and begot demi-gods ( again a common theme in almost all cultures).
Were the Greek Gods fallen ones or perhaps their children? Maybe.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:God the inspirer of the Bible pre dates all other man made religions, so no Greek mythology does not pre date.

Surely any origin story one believes pre dates all others ideas? All one needs to do is pick a creation myth and stick with it?

On the other hand religions which don't posit a creation point and see time as cyclical would see the idea of who came first as a bit silly methinks- "he started it" kinda thing.

Proinsias wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:God the inspirer of the Bible pre dates all other man made religions, so no Greek mythology does not pre date.

Surely any origin story one believes pre dates all others ideas? All one needs to do is pick a creation myth and stick with it?

On the other hand religions which don't posit a creation point and see time as cyclical would see the idea of who came first as a bit silly methinks- "he started it" kinda thing.

What can I say, I presuppose God exists because of my own personal experiences, and believe that the Biblical God is the real McCoy one due to my own personal experiences.

That is where I will argue from, not that I believe it would convince anyone because I know that it is not my job to do that, all I have to do is state my case.

If the Bible is real then yes it does pre-date Greek mythology, because I believe it is real then I naturally believe it pre-date Greek mythology.

I really don't see what the problem is, the logic is sound to me.

I do notice you say creation "myth", which is a dead give away to your own presuppositions.

I didn't just pick a "myth" as you say, to reduce years of study and thinking to a random picking of a fairytale is actually quite insulting.

Dan

Fair enough Daniel, I appreciate where you are coming from and I'm certainly not going to argue the bible isn't real.

Apologies if you find my use of the term myth insulting, it was not intended to be so. Looking over on wikipedia the opening paragraph for mythology says:

a myth is a sacred narrative usually explaining how the world or humankind came to be in its present form,[2] although, in a very broad sense, the word can refer to any traditional story.[3] Bruce Lincoln defines myth as "ideology in narrative form".[4] Myths typically involve supernatural characters and are endorsed by rulers or priests. They may arise as overelaborated accounts of historical events, as allegory for or personification of natural phenomena, or as an explanation of ritual. They are transmitted to convey religious or idealized experience, to establish behavioral models, and to teach.

I'm not trying to champion wikipedia as a beacon of truth, more just that on checking the first google hit it chimes in with my intentions when using the term. Referring to something as myth is not an attempt to discredit or put it down all though it does feel like it has become a dirty word recently - if one thinks something is a load of old rubbish they often refer to it as a myth, this to me is a corruption of the term.

This is coming from someone who doesn't see the Bible or the ancient Greek religion as either right or wrong/ true or false. It's all wonderfully rich and of great benefit to humanity, humans are still dealing with the same issues whether in ancient Greece, the ancient near East or sitting in front of a computer in 2012. I'm a fan of comparative religion but it just seems that many find it insulting to have their religion compared to another - perhaps there's an ancient Greek looking down on us furious that I'm equating his beautiful religion handed down from the Gods with what he sees as a manmade Bible.

Of course, there is always the chance that Christianity could be totally wrong and there either is another God, many Gods or just no God at all. I suppose that the reason I follow Jesus as a Christian is because Christianity can be backed up with scientific evidence more so than any other religion, however another major factor would be personal experience. I've seen my King do far too much in my life and the lives of the people around me to ever reject Him.

SB

Christianity being totally wrong seems unlikely to me - other God(s) or no God(s) may contradict what most see as central to Christianity but even if I were to assume a militant anti-Christian pov, which I don't, there still seems to be a lot of truth, and a lot to be learned, via Christianity and it's texts - Spock & Butterfly were here recently championing the golden rule which is pretty explicit in Christianity whilst panning the Christian God.

Personal experience is a difficult one. The other thread on the Dalai Lama making it to heaven seems relevant - how would one know that the Christian God is personally making a difference in one's life? If one's devotion to Christianity is merely a rather convoluted way of exploring one's Buddha nature, or if Loki or Allah is impacting on your life as that particular deity is happy with even misguided devotion how would one know?

Personally I feel that Christianity is a wonderful tool to explore a relationship with the divine, I just don't agree with it's claims to exclusivity. If it works for you, go for it. One friend makes rum offerings to deities at crossroads, another commits to Jesus - both claim the impact on their lives has been obvious and tremendous - the guy splashing rum is happy for the Christian, the Christian despairs about the guy offering rum.

As far as scientific evidence goes, it seems to me that many strains of Christianity in particular tend to have far more issues with "scientific evidence" than your average heathen. If one wants to track down people who strongly disagree with the general consensus of mainstream science these days a Christian forum such as this one is a pretty safe bet.

I've got two questions for you proinsias, if you don't mind me asking

1. Why is it exactly that you do not believe, not just Christianity but any religion for this matter, why do you not believe any of the exclusivity claims?

2.if you find it highly improbable that Christianity is not the true religion, what is it that is stopping you from thinking that it's claim to exclusivity is true also?

SB

Ask away Sam, though not sure if I can provide a decent answer.

Sam1995 wrote: 1. Why is it exactly that you do not believe, not just Christianity but any religion for this matter, why do you not believe any of the exclusivity claims?

Religion, especially with those that claim descent from Abraham, make claims about the afterlife, or afterdeath which are pretty specific. I see no reason to take anything as authoritative on what I see as purely speculative matters.

Sam1995 wrote:2.if you find it highly improbable that Christianity is not the true religion, what is it that is stopping you from thinking that it's claim to exclusivity is true also?

Not sure what you mean here. It's not so much that I feel Christianity is not true religion, it's just one religion of many. One can explore a relationship with the divine through many vehicles. Jesus is to me one of the huge lights in humanities understanding of the divine, but I see no convincing reason to accept everything that was attributed to him as Gospel.

I have no idea what will happen when I die, I thought that might change when I was recently diagnosed with leukaemia and felt for a while like I was staring death in the face, it didn't. I will find out what happens when I die when I die, until then I will follow my heart. My overriding philosophy since my diagnosis has been that of 'wash every dish as if it were a baby Buddha' or a baby Jesus if you prefer - I feel like Christianity as it is often portrayed these days is an ego trip, it's largely based on concern for oneself and the want to keep the self going on forever in the most favourable conditions imaginable. I'm doing the best I can, and failing, along with everyone else here.