Evidence for God from Science

Hi Guys

I have been pondering Satan's existence a bit lately and how that is connected with the existence of evil.

My questions are.....

a) Is Satan affected by time, or is he like God and is outside of our experience of time?

b) If is is out side of our time, is he affected by a different sort of time?

c) If he is like God and time has no bearing on him, has he always existed, or always just was, because if he had a beginning then he would be in time wouldn't he?

d)If he has always existed, does that mean evil has always existed?

Sometime I hate thinking about eternal stuff, infinities just seem to make no sense and things become confusing.

I understand that answers will only be philosophical in nature and at the least be opinion.


Dan

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Hi Guys

I have been pondering Satan's existence a bit lately and how that is connected with the existence of evil.

My questions are.....

a) Is Satan affected by time, or is he like God and is outside of our experience of time?

b) If is is out side of our time, is he affected by a different sort of time?

c) If he is like God and time has no bearing on him, has he always existed, or always just was, because if he had a beginning then he would be in time wouldn't he?

d)If he has always existed, does that mean evil has always existed?

Sometime I hate thinking about eternal stuff, infinities just seem to make no sense and things become confusing.

I understand that answers will only be philosophical in nature and at the least be opinion.

Dan

As a wise old minister once told me - What does the bible say...

So what does it say about the Adversary?

Ezekiel 28:12-19 has this to say:

"...Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets (timbrels and pipes), Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the Holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. 16 "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. 17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you. 18 "By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. 19 "All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever." NASB

Compare with Isaiah 14:9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16c and what do you notice?

He is a created being and led a rebellion ( see Rev 12:7, 8, 9c) and was cast out of heaven. One third of the angelic beings followed him and were likewise cast out.

So what do these verses reveal to you about his nature and how evil came into being?
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Satan is an angel and that would make him one of Gods creations. Satan certainly has a "time limit" on him until he is cast into the lake. He has a beginning and an end.

Satan is a Fallen Angel, THE fallen angel and OUR adversary ( not God's).
1Enoch gives us a "better' understanding of the Fall of Satan and His followers.
Angels are. IMO, basically the first created beings, long before Humans came along, they are what we one day shall be and they are NOT perfect and not without Sin as their free will can also compel them to chose NOT to serve God.

Genesis 3,Isiah 14, Ezekiel 28, Ephesians 6

They should all give you a bit of an insight into who Satan is!

Thanks guys, I will have to do some study on the weekend.

I am glad that Satan exists inside of time and is finite, as this would be a nightmare inside my head if he did not.

Thanks BW, excellent post and you have given me much to ponder.


Dan

B. W. wrote:Compare with Isaiah 14:9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16c and what do you notice?

Ok please correct me if I am reading this wrong, Satan was created as an eternal being for heaven which was outside of time, he rebelled and was cast down to the Earth and is now constrained by our time.
Evil was created at the time he became unrighteous, he has a beginning and he now has an end.

Isaiah 14:10 seems to sum up my thoughts pretty well. "They will all respond, they will say to you, "You also have become weak, as we are; you have become like us.""

But I still find the whole time thing confusing, if he was eternal and outside of a time stream, how can there be a moment that he was not evil.

Ezekiel 28:12-19 seems to indicate that he was made for Eden, but Isaiah 14:10 says he was cast down from heaven, I would get it if he was in our time stream in Eden, but if he was not it makes no sense to me.

I hope this makes sense.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Hi Guys

I have been pondering Satan's existence a bit lately and how that is connected with the existence of evil.

My questions are.....

a) Is Satan affected by time, or is he like God and is outside of our experience of time?

Not restricted by the dimension of time as bound to our physical universe, but temporal nonetheless since he is a created being (i.e., Satan was not, and now Satan is).

Danieltwotwenty wrote:b) If is is out side of our time, is he affected by a different sort of time?

See response to a)

Danieltwotwenty wrote:c) If he is like God and time has no bearing on him, has he always existed, or always just was, because if he had a beginning then he would be in time wouldn't he?

I believe God was atemporal and entered into temporality when He created in virtue of His true relations His creation, especially humanity. This is William Lane Craig's position too.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:d)If he has always existed, does that mean evil has always existed?

He hasn't always existed. Evil hasn't always existed except as a potential.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Sometime I hate thinking about eternal stuff, infinities just seem to make no sense and things become confusing.

Not sure if it'll help, but Craig philosophised quite a bit on God's relationship to time and eternity. Here is one link I found: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/god-time-and-eternity.

Thanks Kurieuo

You answered my question, since he is a created being he is temporal.

I will read what WLC has to say though, probably won't understand all of it.