Acts 10:
9 The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance 11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.” 16 This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.
Is this account declaring all foods clean for Messianic Jews, or is it about something else?
Thanks.
Acts 10, "kill and eat"
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Christian2
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
Messianic Jews choose to follow certain dietary laws, just like Seventh Day Adventists. Some groups see abstention from some foods as important in some way. Let them be. If they abstain, they do it for the Lord, and if I eat, I do it for the Lord. Who am I to judge another man's servant?Christian2 wrote: Is this account declaring all foods clean for Messianic Jews, or is it about something else?
More timely for us* is, ''Would you eat Halal meat?'' knowing that all Halal is sacrificed to an idol?
FL
*Americans may not have too much Halal meats in their supermarkets - yet! - but you may want to consider the question seriously. Meat sacrificed to an Idol! Coming soon to a supermarket near you!
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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Christian2
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
Thanks, but is this account about food?Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Messianic Jews choose to follow certain dietary laws, just like Seventh Day Adventists. Some groups see abstention from some foods as important in some way. Let them be. If they abstain, they do it for the Lord, and if I eat, I do it for the Lord. Who am I to judge another man's servant?Christian2 wrote: Is this account declaring all foods clean for Messianic Jews, or is it about something else?
More timely for us* is, ''Would you eat Halal meat?'' knowing that all Halal is sacrificed to an idol?
FL
*Americans may not have too much Halal meats in their supermarkets - yet! - but you may want to consider the question seriously. Meat sacrificed to an Idol! Coming soon to a supermarket near you!
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RickD
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
Christian2,
Continue reading the account in Acts 10. What does Acts 10:28 say?
Then continue reading into Acts 11. Specifically look at Acts 11:3. The "circumcised" took issue with Peter for his going into gentile homes and eating with them. If Peter still believed those foods were ceremonially unclean, would he have eaten them?
Continue reading the account in Acts 10. What does Acts 10:28 say?
Then continue reading into Acts 11. Specifically look at Acts 11:3. The "circumcised" took issue with Peter for his going into gentile homes and eating with them. If Peter still believed those foods were ceremonially unclean, would he have eaten them?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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PaulSacramento
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
Christian2 wrote:Acts 10:
9 The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance 11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.” 16 This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.
Is this account declaring all foods clean for Messianic Jews, or is it about something else?
Thanks.
Food was used as symbolic for the gentiles.
Christ was telling Peter to accept the Gentiles because Christ has accepted them to receive the gospel.
Christ had already made a statement on the "cleanliness" food while He was preaching.
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Christian2
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
PaulSacramento wrote:Christian2 wrote:Acts 10:
9 The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance 11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.” 16 This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.
Is this account declaring all foods clean for Messianic Jews, or is it about something else?
Thanks.
Food was used as symbolic for the gentiles.
Christ was telling Peter to accept the Gentiles because Christ has accepted them to receive the gospel.
Christ had already made a statement on the "cleanliness" food while He was preaching.
I agree. Thanks.
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1stjohn0666
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
If God had said all meat is clean, I believe God. For one to change what has been accustomed to them by tradition or law, it is quite a difficult process for change. Having been a former 7th day Adventist, I found it really weird not keeping the 7th day (Saturday) holy to God. After some time, it was no problem. My "Sabbath" is now in Christ
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
PaulSacramento wrote:Food was used as symbolic for the gentiles.
Oh, brother! Food = Gentiles. So...does ''kill and eat'' mean that Jews are supposed to overcome their disdain of eating with Gentiles? Or does ''kill'' mean something else?No wonder atheists laugh at us when we come up with these silly explanations.
Here's a radical idea: Kill = kill, and = and, eat = eat. It would follow that food = food.
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
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Christian2
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
OK, let's look at it the way Peter probably looked at this vision.
Jews considered Gentiles unclean.
The table of animals Peter saw in his vision would have included clean and unclean animals.
12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.
If they had been all clean, there would have been no problem for Peter. (read a mixture of clean Jews and unclean Gentiles)
Peter would have remembered what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus did not abolish the Law; Jews were still required to keep Kosher. Peter would have been astonished if he thought Jesus had abolished the food laws or any other Jewish laws.
Table fellowship was very important. A Jew and a Gentile believer in Christ were now a family. This does not mean that Peter would have eaten no-kosher food with Gentiles. The food most likely would have been something that both Gentiles and Jews could eat together without offending the Jews.
Peter finally gets meaning of the vision. Acts 10: 34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
If Cornelius had been fully accepted as he was, there would have been no need for God to send Peter to Cornelius or Cornelius to Peter. Cornelius still lacked on important thing -- to believe the Gospel
Acts 10: 36 As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), 37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, 40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Cornelius believed the Gospel and that is when he received the Holy Spirit and was baptised.
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
Comments?
Jews considered Gentiles unclean.
The table of animals Peter saw in his vision would have included clean and unclean animals.
12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.
If they had been all clean, there would have been no problem for Peter. (read a mixture of clean Jews and unclean Gentiles)
Peter would have remembered what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus did not abolish the Law; Jews were still required to keep Kosher. Peter would have been astonished if he thought Jesus had abolished the food laws or any other Jewish laws.
Table fellowship was very important. A Jew and a Gentile believer in Christ were now a family. This does not mean that Peter would have eaten no-kosher food with Gentiles. The food most likely would have been something that both Gentiles and Jews could eat together without offending the Jews.
Peter finally gets meaning of the vision. Acts 10: 34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
If Cornelius had been fully accepted as he was, there would have been no need for God to send Peter to Cornelius or Cornelius to Peter. Cornelius still lacked on important thing -- to believe the Gospel
Acts 10: 36 As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), 37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, 40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Cornelius believed the Gospel and that is when he received the Holy Spirit and was baptised.
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
Comments?
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
How someone - supposedly intelligent - could seriously consider that Acts 10:13 (and Ac 11:7) means anything else beyond the plain reading of the text is beyond me.Christian2 wrote: Comments?
There seems to be a current of lunacy in the world today, a current shared by both Christians and unbelievers. A current often called postmodernism, where things are not what they seem, where there is a deeper - mystical - meaning only understandable to the elect. What a bunch of crap!
The Bible's meaning is clear as a mountain stream, written largely by simple people inspired by the Holy Spirit and destined to those poor in worldly spirit. No degree in theology is required!
So...leave your fanciful interpretation where they belong: in the pit of hell.
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
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Christian2
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
How unkind of you to say the things you said to me. I will not return the insults.Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:How someone - supposedly intelligent - could seriously consider that Acts 10:13 (and Ac 11:7) means anything else beyond the plain reading of the text is beyond me.Christian2 wrote: Comments?
There seems to be a current of lunacy in the world today, a current shared by both Christians and unbelievers. A current often called postmodernism, where things are not what they seem, where there is a deeper - mystical - meaning only understandable to the elect. What a bunch of crap!
The Bible's meaning is clear as a mountain stream, written largely by simple people inspired by the Holy Spirit and destined to those poor in worldly spirit. No degree in theology is required!
So...leave your fanciful interpretation where they belong: in the pit of hell.
FL
Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
I'm not entirely certain this was directed at you personally Christian2 but more towards those who hold such a position. I'm sure FL will clarify.Christian2 wrote:How unkind of you to say the things you said to me. I will not return the insults.Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:How someone - supposedly intelligent - could seriously consider that Acts 10:13 (and Ac 11:7) means anything else beyond the plain reading of the text is beyond me.Christian2 wrote: Comments?
There seems to be a current of lunacy in the world today, a current shared by both Christians and unbelievers. A current often called postmodernism, where things are not what they seem, where there is a deeper - mystical - meaning only understandable to the elect. What a bunch of crap!
The Bible's meaning is clear as a mountain stream, written largely by simple people inspired by the Holy Spirit and destined to those poor in worldly spirit. No degree in theology is required!
So...leave your fanciful interpretation where they belong: in the pit of hell.
FL
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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RickD
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
Where did you get this from? Is there something in the text that leads you to believe a gentile would be serving "kosher" foods in his home?Christian2 wrote:
Table fellowship was very important. A Jew and a Gentile believer in Christ were now a family. This does not mean that Peter would have eaten no-kosher food with Gentiles. The food most likely would have been something that both Gentiles and Jews could eat together without offending the Jews.
Remember in Galatians, Paul rebuked Peter:
Galatians 2:11-14:
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles ; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews ?
Peter lived like the Gentiles. Gentiles didn't have food laws that the Jews had. So, part of Peter's living like the Gentiles, was his eating like the Gentiles.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Christian2
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
Eating with Gentiles does not mean Peter ate un-Kosher food with them. When Jesus fed the 4,000 the 4,000 included Gentiles. They ate bread and fish.RickD wrote:
Peter lived like the Gentiles. Gentiles didn't have food laws that the Jews had. So, part of Peter's living like the Gentiles, was his eating like the Gentiles.
I don't believe Jesus would have eaten un-kosher food and I don't believe Peter or Paul did either.
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Christian2
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Re: Acts 10, "kill and eat"
I hold that position, so it was directed to me personally.Byblos wrote:I'm not entirely certain this was directed at you personally Christian2 but more towards those who hold such a position. I'm sure FL will clarify.Christian2 wrote:How unkind of you to say the things you said to me. I will not return the insults.Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:How someone - supposedly intelligent - could seriously consider that Acts 10:13 (and Ac 11:7) means anything else beyond the plain reading of the text is beyond me.Christian2 wrote: Comments?
There seems to be a current of lunacy in the world today, a current shared by both Christians and unbelievers. A current often called postmodernism, where things are not what they seem, where there is a deeper - mystical - meaning only understandable to the elect. What a bunch of crap!
The Bible's meaning is clear as a mountain stream, written largely by simple people inspired by the Holy Spirit and destined to those poor in worldly spirit. No degree in theology is required!
So...leave your fanciful interpretation where they belong: in the pit of hell.
FL
Byblos, I love this site and have been a member for years. I don't remember being insulted like this before on G&S.