Evidence for God from Science

It seems to me, when considering the crude shape of paper and lack of printing technology, faking the bible, specifically the new testament, would have been nearly impossible. To ensure all the proverbial i's were dotted,and t's crossed so as to not leave out details from the old testament, it seems nothing short of computerized cross referencing could do such a job. Thoughts?

I do not understand the question. Please reformulate.

Sorry, I am just speaking on behalf of the bible authenticity. I have heard the arguement that the bible was cut, pasted and written by a group to try and "control" people. As I have read through it, it seems it would be impossible to put a bible together as a ploy to trick people. With the prophesies that match up, and the cross references from the Old Testament to the new, I don't think, considering the technology at the time, it would even be concievable to perform such a task. I am just wondering if there have been studies to prove this would be highly unlikely despite arguements to the contrary.

robyn hill wrote:Sorry, I am just speaking on behalf of the bible authenticity. I have heard the arguement that the bible was cut, pasted and written by a group to try and "control" people. As I have read through it, it seems it would be impossible to put a bible together as a ploy to trick people. With the prophesies that match up, and the cross references from the Old Testament to the new, I don't think, considering the technology at the time, it would even be concievable to perform such a task. I am just wondering if there have been studies to prove this would be highly unlikely despite arguements to the contrary.

I am interested in similar studies as well. I have a friend who says that of course there are mentions from OT in NT since they wrote it according to OT.

Anything can be faked.
The issue is, does the bible, both OT and NT, look like they were made so that "man can control man".
The criteria of embarrassment, for example, shows that in both OT and NT that the people that were chosen were flawed and failed people, that they made many mistakes and even turned their back on God and Christ at times.
That the OT states that man should have no ruler other than God go against the very notion of "man controlling man", this is echoed in the NT when Christ says that His followers, like HIM, are to serve, not to rule.
The bible makes clear cut critiques of rulers and the "clergy" of their time.
IN short, the bible is more critical of "man controlling man" and of the religious hierarchies than almost anything else.

PaulSacramento wrote:Anything can be faked.
The issue is, does the bible, both OT and NT, look like they were made so that "man can control man".
The criteria of embarrassment, for example, shows that in both OT and NT that the people that were chosen were flawed and failed people, that they made many mistakes and even turned their back on God and Christ at times.
That the OT states that man should have no ruler other than God go against the very notion of "man controlling man", this is echoed in the NT when Christ says that His followers, like HIM, are to serve, not to rule.
The bible makes clear cut critiques of rulers and the "clergy" of their time.
IN short, the bible is more critical of "man controlling man" and of the religious hierarchies than almost anything else.

Good post, Paul.

Sorry, I am just speaking on behalf of the bible authenticity. I have heard the arguement that the bible was cut, pasted and written by a group to try and "control" people. As I have read through it, it seems it would be impossible to put a bible together as a ploy to trick people. With the prophesies that match up, and the cross references from the Old Testament to the new, I don't think, considering the technology at the time, it would even be concievable to perform such a task. I am just wondering if there have been studies to prove this would be highly unlikely despite arguements to the contrary.

Not that I think that the Bible was written as a trick, but I think you may be off in your estimations.

First of all, if a group of people had really wanted to, of course they could have written a giant book where the prophecies matched up. Or, if they already had the OT, it wouldn't be too hard to make up a NT story that simply fulfilled all the prophecies. They might not have had loads of awesome technology, but in the era where the Bible was "officially" put together, religious leaders were the smartest and most educated folk in the land. It would certainly be an undertaking, but not impossible by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not sure what kind of a study could prove this either way, but historically speaking it could totally be possible to make up a story or alter it if they felt like it. Obviously it would be inconceivable that the whole NT is made up, simply because a decent amount of it is clearly historically accurate and backed up by non-biblical sources from the time.

On the other hand, most arguments like the one you concerned about are less about people making up stories, and more about which books got into the Bible. Obviously various groups consider different books canon or not canon, and I would say many skeptics look at the arbitrary inclusions/exclusions of books or passages as being signs of tampering by religious leaders, especially when different groups over time have had different books included in their Bibles. The typical response from Christians in my experience is that God guided the men who created the canon, and while you can obviously never prove it, that's part of the faith (that they included and excluded the correct writings).

Paul, thank-you and very true. There seems to be no evidence of control as a motive coming from the biblical text. I still think it would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to cross reference all the passages in the bible that refer forward and back. I am not just speaking of prophesies, but there are places, people, actions etc. that are constantly refered back to through out, and all over the place. I don't see how this could have been manipulated as such.

robyn hill wrote:Paul, thank-you and very true. There seems to be no evidence of control as a motive coming from the biblical text. I still think it would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to cross reference all the passages in the bible that refer forward and back. I am not just speaking of prophesies, but there are places, people, actions etc. that are constantly refered back to through out, and all over the place. I don't see how this could have been manipulated as such.

Robyn, think about it this way. If you wanted to fake something in the bible, say like the resurrection you would want to use the most believable witnesses of those times and culture. Why the heck would the apostles use the testimonies of women to tell us that The tomb was empty when the testimony of women in that time was worth nothing.

bippy123 wrote:

robyn hill wrote:Paul, thank-you and very true. There seems to be no evidence of control as a motive coming from the biblical text. I still think it would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to cross reference all the passages in the bible that refer forward and back. I am not just speaking of prophesies, but there are places, people, actions etc. that are constantly refered back to through out, and all over the place. I don't see how this could have been manipulated as such.

Robyn, think about it this way. If you wanted to fake something in the bible, say like the resurrection you would want to use the most believable witnesses of those times and culture. Why the heck would the apostles use the testimonies of women to tell us that The tomb was empty when the testimony of women in that time was worth nothing.

Too add to what Bippy said, why would you have testimony's that varied slightly in their telling, wouldn't you want there to be no doubt about the accuracy of the story.


Dan

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

bippy123 wrote:

robyn hill wrote:Paul, thank-you and very true. There seems to be no evidence of control as a motive coming from the biblical text. I still think it would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to cross reference all the passages in the bible that refer forward and back. I am not just speaking of prophesies, but there are places, people, actions etc. that are constantly refered back to through out, and all over the place. I don't see how this could have been manipulated as such.

Robyn, think about it this way. If you wanted to fake something in the bible, say like the resurrection you would want to use the most believable witnesses of those times and culture. Why the heck would the apostles use the testimonies of women to tell us that The tomb was empty when the testimony of women in that time was worth nothing.

Too add to what Bippy said, why would you have testimony's that varied slightly in their telling, wouldn't you want there to be no doubt about the accuracy of the story.


Dan

Exactly Daniel, this is yet another positive point towards authenticity. This points to the honesty and integrity of the apostles and to the fact that they genuinely believed in what they saw.