Evidence for God from Science

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:43 am**

Do Christians need to congregate weekly and 'keep' the sabbath?
Do I need to go to church weekly to make our Father happy?

I left the Catholic Church when I was 12. With a child's mind I could not accept:
Being told to go through any human to repent my sins. "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Why would priests call themselves father?! "And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." Matthew 23:9

I could not accept the gold, silver and bronze decorating the cathedrals. I could not accept the fine linens and precious stones wore by priests and adorned in statues and earthly things.

I could not accept the eucharist "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God.." Exodus 20:4-5

There are many other reasons why I left the church and became (foolishly) and atheist when I was coming to understanding of the world and myself. But these are enough to share.

The reason I explain this in relation to going to church weekly, is I have no faith in religion and denominations. Why would I support any denomination that strays from the truth and the light? That glorifies themselves over the only living God and his Word?

There is only one truth to reality: Christ our savior and Abba our creator. There is only one church: Those in fellowship with Christ; his bride.

Christ commands me to know and love Him and the Father with all my mind, with all my heart, and with all my soul. He even explains how the sabbath was made for man, not for Him and the Father, though he is Lord of it.

And then my train of thoughts come to dead halt. I've re-read the NT this past two weeks. And need to re-read it more to come to fuller understanding. But I ask you brothers, do you have this understanding? And can you show me?

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:35 am**

Mallz wrote:Why would I support any denomination that strays from the truth and the light? That glorifies themselves over the only living God and his Word?

You are absolutely right. You shouldn't support any church or organization that doesn't follow God. You need to find a church that does teach the truth about God and the Bible and become part of it.

When you read the book of Acts did you notice that whenever people were converted they became part of a local church? Did you notice that most of Paul's letters were addressed to churches? There is one church which is made up of all people who have put their faith in Christ, but believers also met together in local churches.

Here is what the members of the first church, in Jerusalem, did.

And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
(Acts 2:42 ESV)

One reason for local churches is to provide opportunities for believers to have fellowship with other believers. We are all part of one body but we all have different roles to play within the body but in order to fulfill these roles we need to have regular contact with other believers. You have been given spiritual gifts that enable you to meet the needs of other believers but those other believers have spiritual gifts that enable them to meet your needs. The local church provides a place where you can meet together and give each other the help you need.

And then my train of thoughts come to dead halt. I've re-read the NT this past two weeks. And need to re-read it more to come to fuller understanding. But I ask you brothers, do you have this understanding? And can you show me?

This is one of the reasons you need to find a good church that teaches the Bible. Here is another place where you might find the help you need:

http://www.backtothebible.org/

I became a Christian as a result of listening to radio broadcasts produced by this organization and they offer many good Bible study resources.

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:48 am**

Where two or more gather, I am there...

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:37 pm**

Mallz wrote:
Christ commands me to know and love Him and the Father with all my mind, with all my heart, and with all my soul. He even explains how the sabbath was made for man, not for Him and the Father, though he is Lord of it.

And then my train of thoughts come to dead halt. I've re-read the NT this past two weeks. And need to re-read it more to come to fuller understanding. But I ask you brothers, do you have this understanding? And can you show me?

If you would have asked me a few years ago, I couldn't have cared less about the sabbath or what day to worship on.. To me that was up to the individual... However after my years of studying the scriptures, I found that my ways were false...

As for worshiping on the sabbath, we are observing this as corporate with it's goal to create "unity" in the body of Christ, otherwise it can create division in the body. One esteeming it on one day, someone else another or not even keeping it at all..

Keep in mind that it is a "permanent" covenant given by G-d to His people. It most certainly has not been replaced. Unless we believe that G-d is schizophrenic..

Exodus 31:16
The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.

Leviticus 16:31
It is a day of sabbath rest, and you must deny yourselves; it is a lasting ordinance.

We can also see from the scriptures that the apostles kept it..

Acts 15:21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

Acts 17:2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Acts 18:4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

Practicing it is a way to "separate" the believer from society. When we transgress this commandment, it appears from Ezekiel 22:26 that we transgress G-d's laws..

Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2013 11:40 am**

Gman wrote:
As for worshiping on the sabbath, we are observing this as corporate with it's goal to create "unity" in the body of Christ, otherwise it can create division in the body. One esteeming it on one day, someone else another or not even keeping it at all..

How specifically does worshiping on the sabbath create unity in the church?

Gman wrote:
Keep in mind that it is a "permanent" covenant given by G-d to His people. It most certainly has not been replaced. Unless we believe that G-d is schizophrenic..

God is not schizophrenic. Your belief that the church and Israel are the same, is schizophrenic.

Gman wrote:
Practicing it is a way to "separate" the believer from society. When we transgress this commandment, it appears from Ezekiel 22:26 that we transgress G-d's laws..

It only appears that way because you think the church is Israel.

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2013 5:42 pm**

RickD wrote: How specifically does worshiping on the sabbath create unity in the church?

How doesn't it create unity amigo? Asking believers to gather on a specific day rather than having a believer choose their own day...

God is not schizophrenic. Your belief that the church and Israel are the same, is schizophrenic.

It only appears that way because you think the church is Israel.

No... I've told you before.. We simply graph into the covenants given to Israel as the "commonwealth of Israel." (Ephesians 2:11-13, 19, Ephesians 3:6, Romans 11:11-24, Galatians 4:26,28). G-d made the covenants ONLY between the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31-32, Hebrews 8:6-13)... There are no separate covenants given to the gentiles. We graph into the existing ones and NOT replace them or Israel or the Jews..

Remember, a divided house shall not stand Mark 3:25. So we don't create division anymore..

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2013 7:00 am**

On a side note, where in the OT does it say that the Sabbath is on Saturday?

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2013 7:41 am**

PaulSacramento wrote:On a side note, where in the OT does it say that the Sabbath is on Saturday?

No where... In fact, for the same reason that Passover does not fall on the same solar calender day every year shows that that the true Sabbath does not either and all are guilty of breaking it. The real true Sabbath day has been lost to humanity due to the march of time through the ages. No one knows.

So I guess Saturday (Saturn's Day) as Sabbath in more tradition of men. Let me remind the readers - if people desire to worship on the Saturn Sabbath so be it, or on the day before the Saturday (Frigg day - see note below) that's fine too - or Sunday (Day of God) so be it. I am thankful, we are under God's Grace.

Also, note that people most certainly can make the Saturday Sabbath an Idol and be in violation of the the law too.

Histroy of Saturday

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(mythology)

Saturn (Latin: Saturnus) was a god in ancient Roman religion and a character in myth. Saturn is a complex figure because of his multiple associations and long history. He was the first god of the Capitol, known since the most ancient times as Saturnius Mons and was seen as a god of generation, dissolution, plenty, wealth, agriculture, periodical renewal and liberation. In later developments he came to be also a god of time. His reign was depicted as a Golden Age of abundance and peace. The Temple of Saturn in the Roman Forum housed the state treasury. In December, he was celebrated at what is perhaps the most famous of the Roman festivals, the Saturnalia, a time of feasting, role reversals, free speech, gift-giving and revelry. Saturn the planet and Saturday are both named after the god.

Origin of the names of the days

http://www.pantheon.org/miscellaneous/origin_days.html

The names of the days are in some cases derived from Teutonic deities or, such as in Romance languages, from Roman deities. The early Romans, around the first century, used Saturday as the first day of the week. As the worshipping of the Sun increased, the Sun's day (Sunday) advanced from position of the second day to the first day of the week (and saturday became the seventh day).

Sunday
The name comes from the Latin dies solis, meaning "sun's day": the name of a pagan Roman holiday. It is also called Dominica (Latin), the Day of God. The Romance languages, languages derived from the ancient Latin language (such as French, Spanish, and Italian), retain the root.

French: dimanche; Italian: domenica; Spanish: domingo
German: Sonntag; Dutch: zondag. [both: 'sun-day']

Monday
The name comes from the Anglo-Saxon monandaeg, "the moon's day". This second day was sacred to the goddess of the moon.

French: lundi; Italian: lunedi. Spanish: lunes. [from Luna, "Moon"]
German: Montag; Dutch: maandag. [both: 'moon-day']

Tuesday
This day was named after the Norse god Tyr. The Romans named this day after their war-god Mars: dies Martis.

French: mardi; Italian: martedi; Spanish: martes.
The Germans call Dienstag (meaning "Assembly Day"), in The Netherlands it is known as dinsdag, in Danmark as tirsdag and in Sweden tisdag.

Wednesday
The day named to honor Wodan (Odin).
The Romans called it dies Mercurii, after their god Mercury.

French: mercredi; Italian: mercoledi; Spanish: miércoles.
German: Mittwoch; Dutch: woensdag.

Thursday
The day named after the Norse god Thor. In the Norse languages this day is called Torsdag.
The Romans named this day dies Jovis ("Jove's Day"), after Jove or Jupiter, their most important god.

French: jeudi; Italian: giovedi; Spanish: jueves.
German: Donnerstag; Dutch: donderdag.

Friday
The day in honor of the Norse goddess Frigg.
In Old High German this day was called frigedag.
To the Romans this day was sacred to the goddess Venus, and was known as dies veneris.

French: vendredi; Italian: venerdi; Spanish: viernes.
German: Freitag ; Dutch: vrijdag.

Saturday
This day was called dies Saturni, "Saturn's Day", by the ancient Romans in honor of Saturn. In Anglo-Saxon: sater daeg.

French: samedi; Italian: sabato; Spanish: sábádo.
German: Samstag; Dutch: zaterdag.
Swedish: Lördag; and in Danish and Norse: Lørdag ("washing day").

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Posted: **Thu May 02, 2013 7:50 am**

For those of you so adamant about the absolute MUST of keeping the Sabbath as Saturday does this apply to you in your home city?

Jer 17:21, 22, "This is what the LORD says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem. 22 Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your ancestors." NIV

Neh 13:15-17, "In those days I saw people in Judah treading winepresses on the Sabbath and bringing in grain and loading it on donkeys, together with wine, grapes, figs and all other kinds of loads. And they were bringing all this into Jerusalem on the Sabbath. Therefore I warned them against selling food on that day. 16 People from Tyre who lived in Jerusalem were bringing in fish and all kinds of merchandise and selling them in Jerusalem on the Sabbath to the people of Judah. 17 I rebuked the nobles of Judah and said to them, "What is this wicked thing you are doing--desecrating the Sabbath day?" NIV

Isa 56:2, "Blessed is the one who does this-- the person who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it, and keeps their hands from doing any evil." NIV
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Posted: **Thu May 02, 2013 8:01 am**

It seems to me that the sabbath was that day of rest, that the Isrealites would work 6 days and rest on the seventh.
There is no indication of WHICH day it was and it seems that what we call "Saturday" became the sabbath out of tradition.
Am I correct to assume that Christians that follow the Sabbath, follow the Jewish tradition of the Sabbath too?
Does it start on Friday after sunset and end on Saturday after sunset?
Is all work prohibited? ( I know a jewish family that cooks their meals before the sabbath and eats them during the sabbath so no one has to "labor" with cooking).

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2013 8:28 am**

PaulS wrote:
Am I correct to assume that Christians that follow the Sabbath, follow the Jewish tradition of the Sabbath too?

No Paul. Just look at all the things Israel had to do in order to observe the sabbath the way God told them to. B.W.'s post above has a couple. There are many more. Christians that claim they observe the sabbath, observe it as they see fit. Not how God told Israel to observe it.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2013 9:05 am**

I've always felt God asks us to observe the law based on his INTENT. For instance, the pharisees were criticized by Jesus because they were missing the intent of the law, and following the law the way they saw fit. God asks us to take a break from our work. Even in the versus B.W. posted, I read them to say, don't work for pay on the sabbath. That doesn't mean I shouldn't chop firewood for an hour while my kids play in the backyard, because I enjoy that, and it's rest. What God intended fro Ryan was to not go to the office and do what I already did for 6 days and to worship God.

That's how I see it, that's how I observe it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2013 10:45 am**

ryanbouma wrote:I've always felt God asks us to observe the law based on his INTENT. For instance, the pharisees were criticized by Jesus because they were missing the intent of the law, and following the law the way they saw fit. God asks us to take a break from our work. Even in the versus B.W. posted, I read them to say, don't work for pay on the sabbath. That doesn't mean I shouldn't chop firewood for an hour while my kids play in the backyard, because I enjoy that, and it's rest. What God intended fro Ryan was to not go to the office and do what I already did for 6 days and to worship God.

That's how I see it, that's how I observe it. Maybe I'm wrong.

The intent of the Sabbath law was not for people to serve the Sabbath but rather for the Sabbath to serve man. Jesus said those very words. It is a day of rest. So there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. If Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, etc and etc, is observed – no argument from me: Enjoy – chop wood! The intent of the Sabbath rest is observed still. Recall that it is by God’s Grace alone that lets us enter the true rest Christ Jesus brings.

Let us not fall into legalism about the Sabbath day as that only makes people serve the Sabbath turning it into an Idol of sorts. We must also be careful not to put a stumbling block in another’s way. For those who make the case for people to must serve the Saturday Sabbath or else – they also must ask themselves is they live by the letter of the Sabbath law or not?

So enjoy, chop wood, rest, mow the lawn, praise God, worship and honor him all the days of our lives, amen.
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Posted: **Thu May 02, 2013 7:40 pm**

PaulSacramento wrote:It seems to me that the sabbath was that day of rest, that the Isrealites would work 6 days and rest on the seventh.
There is no indication of WHICH day it was and it seems that what we call "Saturday" became the sabbath out of tradition.

Hi Paul... Since 45 B.C., prior to the birth of Christ, proves that there has never been any change in the weekly cycle from the time of Christ until now and Jews have been keeping it religiously for thousands of years. On top of that we have proof that in 69-70 AD, all Jews were driven from Palestine and dispersed into nations around the world. I can't see how billions of people could be wrong about today's calendar and what day of the week we are on..

But let's say hypothetically we have the entire calendar wrong.. So do we just toss everything away now? And if we can't obey or agree on a calendar date, then what about all the other commandments? Since no one can obey the commandment on adultery, do we simply say that we don't have to obey it anymore? Since no one can obey the commandment on theft, do we simply toss the commandment on not to steal away?

As you can see, this belief brings chaos.... We already have enough chaos in the world today. Why add to the chaos?

PaulSacramento wrote:Am I correct to assume that Christians that follow the Sabbath, follow the Jewish tradition of the Sabbath too?
Does it start on Friday after sunset and end on Saturday after sunset?

Yes.. Messianics follow it in tow along with the Jews. In the creation chapter of Genesis 1, God gives His definition of a day. Verses like Leviticus 23:32 also explain how it starts in the evening and ends in the evening starting on a Friday night or after six days of work Exodus 20:8-11.

PaulSacramento wrote:Is all work prohibited? ( I know a jewish family that cooks their meals before the sabbath and eats them during the sabbath so no one has to "labor" with cooking).

Yes, we do our best to stop work... But obviously some drive a car, or prepare food, but not cook... The more orthodox Jews carry the commandment to it's fullest with not even turning on a light switch. Again, to me that would be more legalistic about it, but we do our best to obey and not burn ourselves out and give time to our families on the sabbath.

Posted: **Fri May 03, 2013 1:12 am**

Is it alright on a Sabbath to bomb a Palestinian terrorist?

Evidence for God from Science

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