Evidence for God from Science

Some people ask.

Well, they are there and God uses them. Would be people willing to 'cooperate' or get to God if they were not? It would be like: oh, we are fine, we are doing ok, we do not need you.

This is kind of a Problem of Evil question.

1. "Hard times" usually aren't actually that hard, just not as cushy as we're used to.
2. The choices we make cause the hard times.
3. The choices others make cause the hard times.
4. We live in a fallen/sinful world where hard times come and go.
5. As you pointed out, opportunity for God to work in our lives.
6. As you pointed out, opportunity to show compassion and the expression of Jesus through our actions.
7. Jac recently made note in a recent thread I started that in order to allow humans to have free will, God had to create a NORMAL world, not a PERFECT world.
8. The hard times are not hard, it's our perception of what is considered bad (different from point 1).

I think your questions holds back people from Christianity more than any other question.

1over137 wrote:Some people ask.

Well, they are there and God uses them. Would be people willing to 'cooperate' or get to God if they were not? It would be like: oh, we are fine, we are doing ok, we do not need you.

Why does God allow them to the extent that He Himself is humiliated and nailed to the cross by His own creation.

ryanbouma wrote:This is kind of a Problem of Evil question.

1. "Hard times" usually aren't actually that hard, just not as cushy as we're used to.
2. The choices we make cause the hard times.
3. The choices others make cause the hard times.
4. We live in a fallen/sinful world where hard times come and go.
5. As you pointed out, opportunity for God to work in our lives.
6. As you pointed out, opportunity to show compassion and the expression of Jesus through our actions.
7. Jac recently made note in a recent thread I started that in order to allow humans to have free will, God had to create a NORMAL world, not a PERFECT world.
8. The hard times are not hard, it's our perception of what is considered bad (different from point 1).

I think your questions holds back people from Christianity more than any other question.

About holding others back: are we to say others that when becoming believers there will be no hard times? No. First, it is a lie, second when a hard time comes they may abandon faith as they were not prepared.

Truth is that there will be hard times, but at the same time God will be our Helper. He will provide us with strength and internal peace and understanding.

I would say, hard times are necessary and inseparable part of our growing.

1over137 wrote:Some people ask.

Well, they are there and God uses them. Would be people willing to 'cooperate' or get to God if they were not? It would be like: oh, we are fine, we are doing ok, we do not need you.

Why are there "hard times"?
If by hard times you mean the difficulties and pain that people go through in their everyday lives then I think One has to be honest with themselves and realize first off how much of that is self-inflicted, how much is "other-inflicted" and how much is just part of the natural order of things that were this way BEFORE humans ever walked the earth.
I don't think even the most intelligent and self-aware of mammals ever stop and say "life isn't fair".
Yet we do.
Why?

PaulSacramento wrote:

1over137 wrote:Some people ask.

Well, they are there and God uses them. Would be people willing to 'cooperate' or get to God if they were not? It would be like: oh, we are fine, we are doing ok, we do not need you.

Why are there "hard times"?
If by hard times you mean the difficulties and pain that people go through in their everyday lives then I think One has to be honest with themselves and realize first off how much of that is self-inflicted, how much is "other-inflicted" and how much is just part of the natural order of things that were this way BEFORE humans ever walked the earth.
I don't think even the most intelligent and self-aware of mammals ever stop and say "life isn't fair".
Yet we do.
Why?

Becuase people long for beauty, for peace, for joy, for fairness, for love, for truth...

1over137 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

1over137 wrote:Some people ask.

Well, they are there and God uses them. Would be people willing to 'cooperate' or get to God if they were not? It would be like: oh, we are fine, we are doing ok, we do not need you.

Why are there "hard times"?
If by hard times you mean the difficulties and pain that people go through in their everyday lives then I think One has to be honest with themselves and realize first off how much of that is self-inflicted, how much is "other-inflicted" and how much is just part of the natural order of things that were this way BEFORE humans ever walked the earth.
I don't think even the most intelligent and self-aware of mammals ever stop and say "life isn't fair".
Yet we do.
Why?

Becuase people long for beauty, for peace, for joy, for fairness, for love, for truth...

Why?

Because we are created in the image of God

Some believe that image was destroyed at the fall, others that it was simply broken... what say you?

Kurieuo wrote:Some believe that image was destroyed at the fall, others that it was simply broken... what say you?

Maybe it's more like the funny mirrors at the carnival, kinda wapred and misshapen.

Some people ask.

Well, they are there and God uses them. Would be people willing to 'cooperate' or get to God if they were not? It would be like: oh, we are fine, we are doing ok, we do not need you.

Hard times are there because they are consequences of somethings, that may be you or someone/something other than you but it may affect you all the same. For example the holocaust would not have happened if Hitler's parents had not decided to have him. Their decision in one way is ultimately responsible for what happened...not every hard time is from God.

Or consider that if you never decided to swim you would never drown. Or if you never learn to drive you won't be the reason for someone's kid dying by your car in an accident.

Can God give you hard time? sure.

Does he do that all the time? I don't think so.

Does he do that for fun, just to check you from time to time? No.

Without hard time will the people always forsake God? not really. But hard times do tend to make people religious. But in my opinion it is temporary at best.

Because the truth is, the people who have their hearts set on God, who love God will always love God just the same. In good and bad, in trouble or joy. But he who does not know God and does not know Jesus he may only come when he is in trouble and then he may leave because he has no commitment, he has no love for God. Ofcourse there are exception to both cases but that to me, sums it up.

Kurieuo wrote:Some believe that image was destroyed at the fall, others that it was simply broken... what say you?

We are in a fallen state, a broken one.
Which means we can get picked up and fixed.
The first step is to accept that we are such ( fallen and broken from what we should be).
The second is to accept that we can't fix ourselves.
The third is to accept that only God can fix us.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Some believe that image was destroyed at the fall, others that it was simply broken... what say you?

We are in a fallen state, a broken one.
Which means we can get picked up and fixed.
The first step is to accept that we are such ( fallen and broken from what we should be).
The second is to accept that we can't fix ourselves.
The third is to accept that only God can fix us.