Evidence for God from Science

I think a good idea on conflict resolution is for each party to tell the other what he thinks is the other's position without judgment as much as possible.

For instance, something I don't think I can stay here unless we all can understand each other:

Replies from 1over or Paul and others on many threads make me wonder if I even belong here because I cannot convince them about my views on resposibility or they convince me.



IMHO they maintain God has little responsibility with what people do and what happens to people because of their actions they have coming.

Can you be accurate and non-judgemental in stating my views?

ultimate777 wrote:I think a good idea on conflict resolution is for each party to tell the other what he thinks is the other's position without judgment as much as possible.

For instance, something I don't think I can stay here unless we all can understand each other:

Replies from 1over or Paul and others on many threads make me wonder if I even belong here because I cannot convince them about my views on resposibility or they convince me.



IMHO they maintain God has little responsibility with what people do and what happens to people because of their actions they have coming.

Can you be accurate and non-judgemental in stating my views?

I think the issue may not be that you feel you can't prove your point, it is just simply that we do NOT agree with your conclusions.

IMHO they maintain God has little responsibility with what people do and what happens to people because of their actions they have coming.

This view is based on the presumption that there is such a thing as free will ( limitations there of is another topic all together).
If there is free will than God can NOT interfere in the business of man UNLESS He chooses so via Divine Intervention and even then, base don what we see in the bible, God either warns or limits His intervention so as to give CHOICE to those being "divinely judged".
It is not about God not have responsibility over our actions, our free willed actions, but about God giving Us what we want.
And make no mistake, NO ONE wants a dictator and tyrant God that rules our every moment and thought.

ultimate777 wrote:I think a good idea on conflict resolution is for each party to tell the other what he thinks is the other's position without judgment as much as possible.

For instance, something I don't think I can stay here unless we all can understand each other:

Replies from 1over or Paul and others on many threads make me wonder if I even belong here because I cannot convince them about my views on resposibility or they convince me.



IMHO they maintain God has little responsibility with what people do and what happens to people because of their actions they have coming.

Can you be accurate and non-judgemental in stating my views?

Well, to understand each other is a process and may take time.

About which views on responsibility we cannot convince each other?

Why do you think we maintain God has little responsibility?

We try to understand you and therefore we ask you questions if we think we do not understand you. And we expect we get answers from you, so that we could understand you.

1over137 wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:I think a good idea on conflict resolution is for each party to tell the other what he thinks is the other's position without judgment as much as possible.

For instance, something I don't think I can stay here unless we all can understand each other:

Replies from 1over or Paul and others on many threads make me wonder if I even belong here because I cannot convince them about my views on resposibility or they convince me.



IMHO they maintain God has little responsibility with what people do and what happens to people because of their actions they have coming.

Can you be accurate and non-judgemental in stating my views?

Well, to understand each other is a process and may take time.

About which views on responsibility we cannot convince each other?

Why do you think we maintain God has little responsibility?

We try to understand you and therefore we ask you questions if we think we do not understand you. And we expect we get answers from you, so that we could understand you.

Tell me exactly how I did on stating your views and then we might move on to your stating what you think are my views based on my body of work here up to right now, nothing further, as soon as I have understood your views.

Do I make myself clear?

Lincoln said "There was a man trying to ride a severely bucking horse, the horse got a leg in a stirrup, the man said ' If you are going to get on I am going to get off ' '' Sometimes some of you make me feel like that man.


There was this hillbilly just like Andy Griffith might have played him over 50 years ago
He wanted to get in the Air Force the worst way. On his examination they brought him some square pegs and some round pegs and something he could neatly plug them into. At first, it was too much for him, he couldn't even try. Then with a huge Andy Griifith smile on his face he took out a pocket knife and started whittling the pegs. Sometimes some of you remind me of that man:) That is you are determined certain pegs will go in certain holes, rather than seeing if they really do, and acting accordingly, as some people would.

Ultimate777,

I can tell you exactly how you stated our views:

ultimate777 wrote: IMHO they maintain God has little responsibility with what people do and what happens to people because of their actions they have coming.

I am not sure what are your views, And sorry to tell you this, but am not even sure you are a Christian. I hope I am wrong.

Then, I do not think you understand my views and I understand yours, so no, you haven't made yourself clear.

You have your view of me and feelings toward me. Well, what to say, you are free to have your opinions.

But I am not finding myself in your anecdotes. And you seems the only one to have such problem with me.

You keep accusing us of not trying to understand you, but in my view, you are the one who keeps turning the back.

You started this thread to work 'conflict' out, so, let's work on it.

PaulSacramento wrote:

IMHO they maintain God has little responsibility with what people do and what happens to people because of their actions they have coming.

This view is based on the presumption that there is such a thing as free will ( limitations there of is another topic all together).
If there is free will than God can NOT interfere in the business of man UNLESS He chooses so via Divine Intervention and even then, base don what we see in the bible, God either warns or limits His intervention so as to give CHOICE to those being "divinely judged".
It is not about God not have responsibility over our actions, our free willed actions, but about God giving Us what we want.
And make no mistake, NO ONE wants a dictator and tyrant God that rules our every moment and thought.

Ok, I think I get the jist of your views, IMHO close to what I stated your all's to be. Now we can continue if you state what you think mine are. Admittedley mine are more complicated and still in flux, but where is it written that it should be easy?

God can NOT, God can NOT?

If I were an atheist I wouldn't even bother with you all.

1over137 wrote:Ultimate777,

I can tell you exactly how you stated our views:

ultimate777 wrote: IMHO they maintain God has little responsibility with what people do and what happens to people because of their actions they have coming.

WAS I ACCURATE??????? Good grief, its like pulling teeth!

1over137 wrote: I am not sure what are your views, And sorry to tell you this, but am not even sure you are a Christian. I hope I am wrong.

Well I not sure you are either, perhaps you are a double agent for "the other side." Sometimes I think that with some of the friends Jesus has, He doesn't need enemies.

1over137 wrote: Then, I do not think you understand my views and I understand yours, so no, you haven't made yourself clear.

You have your view of me and feelings toward me. Well, what to say, you are free to have your opinions.

But I am not finding myself in your anecdotes. And you seems the only one to have such problem with me.

You just could not accept the "rules" I set up and either accept them or stay out of the game. Thus you are like the horse and the hillbilly. You just could not go along with the program, just like them. The hillbilly at least had a choice. And people accuse me of over-explaining things. If you are a UKain, Oscar Wilde may have been right when he said the UK and America are two countries divided by a common language Of course, you just had to brush aside my concerns and do it your way. If you want to play rugby, lose the cricket gear.

1over137 wrote: You keep accusing us of not trying to understand you, but in my view, you are the one who keeps turning the back.

??????

1over137 wrote: You started this thread to work 'conflict' out, so, let's work on it.

Can you play by my rules in the thread, that is, don't bother to ask what my views are but tell me what you think they are?
My gosh, is that impossible either to understand or to do?
What is it?

to your game:
IMO, you think God has much more responsibility with what people do. So, maybe then you do not pay that much attention to what you write as you give part of your responsibility away.

to the rest of your post:
I do not care what you say on me, I only care about you crossing/or not forum guidelines.
Please check esp. Mannerism in http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... hp?f=3&t=4

Tim Keller in one of his sermon on idolatry said something like that when we hit a person's idol, person becames angry even furious.

1over137 wrote:to your game:
IMO, you think God has much more responsibility with what people do. So, maybe then you do not pay that much attention to what you write as you give part of your responsibility away.

to the rest of your post:
I do not care what you say on me, I only care about you crossing/or not forum guidelines.
Please check esp. Mannerism in http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... hp?f=3&t=4

Tim Keller in one of his sermon on idolatry said something like that when we hit a person's idol, person becames angry even furious.

I'll try it again from another direction. My views on conflict resolution I conceived of over 20 years ago. Until now I never seemed able to see them in practice. And you either have not understood them or have refused to help me implement them.
Would you please try to understand them and help me implement them?

Can honey catch more flies than vinegar? You will teach me about that soon.

ultimate777 wrote:

1over137 wrote:to your game:
IMO, you think God has much more responsibility with what people do. So, maybe then you do not pay that much attention to what you write as you give part of your responsibility away.

to the rest of your post:
I do not care what you say on me, I only care about you crossing/or not forum guidelines.
Please check esp. Mannerism in http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... hp?f=3&t=4

Tim Keller in one of his sermon on idolatry said something like that when we hit a person's idol, person becames angry even furious.

I'll try it again from another direction. My views on conflict resolution I conceived of over 20 years ago. Until now I never seemed able to see them in practice. And you either have not understood them or have refused to help me implement them.
Would you please try to understand them and help me implement them?

Can honey catch more flies than vinegar? You will teach me about that soon.

Ok, I wish to understand them. What should I do now? Tell me.

Ultimate777,

Your profile says you are Christian. How do you define Christian? In other words, what makes you a Christian?

RickD wrote:Ultimate777,

Your profile says you are Christian. How do you define Christian? In other words, what makes you a Christian?

Someone who belives that Jesus is God who came to Earth to save us from evil in this life and Hell in the next.

Don't be suprised if I do not reply to any replies to my answer, period

1over137 wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:

1over137 wrote:to your game:
IMO, you think God has much more responsibility with what people do. So, maybe then you do not pay that much attention to what you write as you give part of your responsibility away.

to the rest of your post:
I do not care what you say on me, I only care about you crossing/or not forum guidelines.
Please check esp. Mannerism in http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... hp?f=3&t=4

Tim Keller in one of his sermon on idolatry said something like that when we hit a person's idol, person becames angry even furious.

I'll try it again from another direction. My views on conflict resolution I conceived of over 20 years ago. Until now I never seemed able to see them in practice. And you either have not understood them or have refused to help me implement them.
Would you please try to understand them and help me implement them?

Can honey catch more flies than vinegar? You will teach me about that soon.

Ok, I wish to understand them. What should I do now? Tell me.

My views are like this. When there is a dispute that has hit an impasse the sides should have a "meeting", not neccesarily face to face. The medium we are using should do nicely. Lets call the sides Smith and Jones. Smith and Jones need to be able to agree amicably who shall speak first. Maybe scissors, paper, rock, or something if needed

Let's say its Smith. Smith tells Jones what Smith thinks Jones' position is in a non-critical manner. Then Jones corrects Smith if neccessary. Smith in good faith tries to get Jones to clarify things if Jones needs to correct Smith. Jones and Smith work in good faith until they agree what Jones' position is. When that is done its vice versa.
If it gets repetitious they might remember that Churchill said jaw jaw is better than war war.
War can be very repetitious.

I wish long before the ACW the pro and anti slavery forces had tried it. Couldn't have been any worse, could it ?;)

Why don't they have a spell check on this mother, or do they?

ultimate777 wrote:I think a good idea on conflict resolution is for each party to tell the other what he thinks is the other's position without judgment as much as possible.

For instance, something I don't think I can stay here unless we all can understand each other:

Replies from 1over or Paul and others on many threads make me wonder if I even belong here because I cannot convince them about my views on resposibility or they convince me.



IMHO they maintain God has little responsibility with what people do and what happens to people because of their actions they have coming.

Can you be accurate and non-judgemental in stating my views?

Sorry ultimate777 I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I just returned from a clothing drive / distribution to Cheyenne River and Standing Rock Reservations. There is a third world country within the USA and we do what we can to help others find hope in Christ by being the extension of Christ's Jesus' hands, feet, and actions where we have been assigned in life. We live in a dark broken world filled with folks that nit pick rather than shinning light. So, which are you?

From what I read of your post in the few hours of my return from the past five days, you appear to be entrenched in a certain view of predestination - if that is the case - what has the Lord predestined you to become? What is the extent of your demonstrated faith?
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P. S. I would like to publicly say a personal word of Thanks to FL, who kindly sent personal support to help defer the cost of fuel so that the clothes were distributed to those in dire need. Again, thank you FL!