Evidence for God from Science

One can argue that a person that keeps jaywalking and finally gets hit by a car was "predestined" to get hit by a car.
Predestination can mean a few different things of course.

Why would there be predestination?

PaulSacramento wrote:One can argue that a person that keeps jaywalking and finally gets hit by a car was "predestined" to get hit by a car.

Not in my context. I mean more in the theological. If the person hit somehow becomes a criminal when he wouldn't otherwise. Or the driver. That is an example of what I am talking about.

Predestination can mean a few different things of course.

As the late great Vincent Price might say "Cute."

Mallz wrote:Why would there be predestination?

Because what happens to us sometimes influences our choices to an extent we cannot control, depending on how we are made. I suppose serial killers and sex offenders have as much choice as "normal" people?

I kind of doubt it. But I'll admit I could be wrong if those who disagree can extend me the same courtesy. Those that can't can take a long walk on a short pier

I

ultimate777 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:One can argue that a person that keeps jaywalking and finally gets hit by a car was "predestined" to get hit by a car.

Not in my context. I mean more in the theological. If the person hit somehow becomes a criminal when he wouldn't otherwise. Or the driver. That is an example of what I am talking about.

Predestination can mean a few different things of course.

As the late great Vincent Price might say "Cute."

You need to work on your quoting skills.

In regards to your example:

Not in my context. I mean more in the theological. If the person hit somehow becomes a criminal when he wouldn't otherwise. Or the driver. That is an example of what I am talking about

.

If a person is "predestined" to be a criminal then there is no "otherwise" to it, hence my statement that predestination means different things to different people.

Proverbs 16:9 puts to death the idea of predestination. Compare with Pr 16:1 and Ruth 1:21.

FL

I believe I'm predestined to have free-will.

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Proverbs 16:9 puts to death the idea of predestination. Compare with Pr 16:1 and Ruth 1:21.

FL

Could I have a little clarity on what you mean here?

PaulSacramento wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:One can argue that a person that keeps jaywalking and finally gets hit by a car was "predestined" to get hit by a car.

Not in my context. I mean more in the theological. If the person hit somehow becomes a criminal when he wouldn't otherwise. Or the driver. That is an example of what I am talking about.

Predestination can mean a few different things of course.

As the late great Vincent Price might say "Cute."

You need to work on your quoting skills.

In regards to your example:

Not in my context. I mean more in the theological. If the person hit somehow becomes a criminal when he wouldn't otherwise. Or the driver. That is an example of what I am talking about

.

If a person is "predestined" to be a criminal then there is no "otherwise" to it, hence my statement that predestination means different things to different people.

No.

You may be predestined to be a criminal if your brain is damaged a certain admittedly extremely unlikely way.
But otherwise not. Some of us may take less to become one. No right kind of stimulus, no criminality.

Because what happens to us sometimes influences our choices to an extent we cannot control, depending on how we are made. I suppose serial killers and sex offenders have as much choice as "normal" people?

Which would suggest we're at the disposal to our fellow humans and the natural world. Since we have cause and effect in our dimension of time I would think that anything happening to us or others is more random chance than predestination. Just because you might know an outcome (God) doesn't mean it was predestined to be.

Or take genetic defects, physical or mental. That can be attributed to bad genetic pairing. Or unfortunate random mutation.

ultimate777 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:One can argue that a person that keeps jaywalking and finally gets hit by a car was "predestined" to get hit by a car.

Not in my context. I mean more in the theological. If the person hit somehow becomes a criminal when he wouldn't otherwise. Or the driver. That is an example of what I am talking about.

Predestination can mean a few different things of course.

As the late great Vincent Price might say "Cute."

You need to work on your quoting skills.

In regards to your example:

Not in my context. I mean more in the theological. If the person hit somehow becomes a criminal when he wouldn't otherwise. Or the driver. That is an example of what I am talking about

.

If a person is "predestined" to be a criminal then there is no "otherwise" to it, hence my statement that predestination means different things to different people.

No.

You may be predestined to be a criminal if your brain is damaged a certain admittedly extremely unlikely way.
But otherwise not. Some of us may take less to become one. No right kind of stimulus, no criminality.

Interesting view of "predestined".
Rest my case.

SonofAletheia wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Proverbs 16:9 puts to death the idea of predestination. Compare with Pr 16:1 and Ruth 1:21.

FL

Could I have a little clarity on what you mean here?

Yeah...I wasn't clear at all. My mind went schizoïd on this one. On one hand, I was answering the non-believer understanding of pre-destination, which they think is fate; and on the other hand, I gave Bible quotes showing pre-destination! From a biblical point-of-view, pre-destination means divine decree, a trial prepared beforehand, an appointed event, and so on. All of these are ordained by God for the working out of His will.

So, to sum up: Fate is unbiblical, free will is biblical and God directs all events - even the most minute - for His glory.

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

SonofAletheia wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Proverbs 16:9 puts to death the idea of predestination. Compare with Pr 16:1 and Ruth 1:21.

FL

Could I have a little clarity on what you mean here?

Yeah...I wasn't clear at all. My mind went schizoïd on this one. On one hand, I was answering the non-believer understanding of pre-destination, which they think is fate; and on the other hand, I gave Bible quotes showing pre-destination! From a biblical point-of-view, pre-destination means divine decree, a trial prepared beforehand, an appointed event, and so on. All of these are ordained by God for the working out of His will.

So, to sum up: Fate is unbiblical, free will is biblical and God directs all events - even the most minute - for His glory.

FL

So you take some sort of Compatibilist view? Would you consider yourself a Molinist?

SonofAletheia wrote: So you take some sort of Compatibilist view? Would you consider yourself a Molinist?

I dunno...It just says ''Christian'' on my name tag.

FL