Evidence for God from Science

leading a debate with mormons tomorrow with my bible study group. Main topic is how facts and faith are what make christianity not just blind faith alone (like Mormonism).

Only got Proverbs 14:15 as of now, some more verses would be awesome

Murray wrote:leading a debate with mormons tomorrow with my bible study group. Main topic is how facts and faith are what make christianity not just blind faith alone (like Mormonism).

Only got Proverbs 14:15 as of now, some more verses would be awesome

That is a good start also check the Forum here for more that might help...

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =8&t=34356
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As of now I have a few major talking points.

-The book of Abraham (actual egyptian scrolls) that actually still exists, JS translated them, later translated by egyptologist. Not 1 word matched JS translation.
-Eternal punishment which is denied in mormon doctrine. Contradicts Revelation 20:10, 21:8, Matthew 25:46
-Imperfection of God "As man once was, as god is, man may become". Directly contradicts gods perfection
- Absolutely 0 historical evidence for BOM , massive historical evidence for Bible including jesus's resurrection ( Faith & Fact = Christianity, Blind Faith & indoctrination = Mormonism)
-3,000 changes to the book of mormon since 1830, No historical evidence for entire books being removed from bible except by martin Luther, No major changes from either testament as show in dead sea scrolls and others)
-Direct copy and paste verses from book of mormon from KJB, Some verses cut and pasted from KJB were verses that were incorrectly translated in KJB.
1 Nephi 4:13
1 Nephi 10:8
1 Nephi 10:9
1 Nephi 11:22
1 Nephi 11:27
1 Nephi 14:11

- Baptism in Momon church is a magical and saves you the second water touches your head. Also water baptism essential for Salvation.
Contradicts Matthew 3:11

I can't really debate them on the Trinity as of now, because honestly I don't know how. I suppose that thread B.W gave me is my best bet for finding an argument for the trinity

This may sound shocking but those mormons stopped coming to my house.

I had the exact same thing happen to me, they came about four times and I kept showing them passages that contradicted their ideas, they never came back.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:I had the exact same thing happen to me, they came about four times and I kept showing them passages that contradicted their ideas, they never came back.

Daniel,

I think they stopped coming back because you kept offering them vegemite and Foster's Lager.

RickD wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:I had the exact same thing happen to me, they came about four times and I kept showing them passages that contradicted their ideas, they never came back.

Daniel,

I think they stopped coming back because you kept offering them vegemite and Foster's Lager.

Well they were Americans.............................

pretty much the same message the whole time

"we're not going to try to convert you with history, first you have to be baptized into the mormon church then the truth of the history will be revealed to you"

Although you've already had your debate, I wanted to add a few things. I've never had the chance to speak with a Mormon, either in real life or online, but I would use the same verses to talk to a Mormon as I would to talk to a non-believer. The nature of faith is something I've been thinking about for a little while now, especially as some people like to claim that all believers' faith fits with the typical dictionary definition of faith (which is blind faith), and that therefore there is no evidence for G-d or something to that effect. Of course, plenty of people have blind faith in a great array of things, but G-d's existence or indeed evidence of His existence isn't dependent on whether some believers have blind or biblical faith (although the nature of faith is important for the believer). It's an interesting topic methinks.

When the disciples were going out and spreading the Gospel, they didn't just tell people, but they debated, persuaded, witnessed, testified, reasoned, explained and gave evidence from scripture (think Acts). People who have blind faith in something necessarily can't do this- if you can explain the reasons for your belief with evidence (which, of course, is not always going to be 'scientific evidence'), it cannot be blind, regardless of whether what you put your faith in is worthy of that faith.

Another thing to consider is that if we sincerely seek G-d, we will find Him. His existence is not hidden such that we have no hope of finding evidence for it. One example, inspired by the verse at the top of board, is: 'The heavens declare the glory of G-d; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge. They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them. Yet their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.' (Psalm 19:1-4 NIV) This is biblical acknowledgement that there is evidence that a believer can have base his faith on. Another example would be the great number of repetitions of the phrase 'then you will know I am the LORD' in the Old Testament, typically in relation to G-d's fulfilling His promises or to bringing about judgement. Also, if the LORD is the author and perfector of our faith (biblical faith), it wouldn't make sense to say that faith is only blind. The LORD is directly involved with our faith; He's not just a passive observer and He hasn't just said 'believe me!', but He gives us the means to believe and fulfills that belief by carrying out what He has promised.

I would also say that blind faith is also incompatible with loving the LORD. If your faith is blind, you have no basis for love and cannot truly have any love. Whatever love for the LORD a person with blind faith might or might not have is not specifically directed at the LORD; it just so happens that they've chosen to worship Him. A person with biblical faith can love the LORD and have a relationship with Him because he has reason to trust in the many, many great things the LORD has done,to trust in His glorious character and to trust in His love.

Welcome to the board EachNewDawn