Evidence for God from Science

I saw this on youtube of all places in the comments section. It was a response to an apologetics video laying out the case for the resurrection. The atheist said he found the idea of Christ's resurrection being true to be quite absurd, and possibly a legend and mainly due to the fact that, after the event none of the religious leaders in Israel at the time like the Scribes, Sadducees and Pharisees wrote anything about it.

He thinks that since all we have besides writings by the early church and by historians like Josephus are just not enough. He says surely if the event happened and happened on the magnitude that the NT says it did, than even folks like the Pharisees would document such a thing even if they did despise it or deny it.

I was wondering if you all have ever heard about this objection and if so, how would you answer it? Thank you all for your time!

I would think that anything that could discredit an organization (religion, country, etc.), would not be recorded as it would cause dissention in that organization. Control and Power. Cover-ups, arrogant ignoring, pride, etc.

Especially when Jesus called them sons of satan to their faces...

even folks like the Pharisees would document such a thing even if they did despise it or deny it.

Who controlled such religious sects like the Pharisees? Their LEADERS - the very ones who sought the murder of Jesus. Think such people would document reports that not only were they wrong, but that were also the very plotters and murders of God Incarnate? Discovering that the religious leaders were the ultimate hypocrites, claiming to instruct about honoring God in all things, and yet conspiring to murder Him when He actually shows up in physical form.

And we don't know from the Biblical accounts as to whom all precisely Jesus appeared to post Resurrection. But it would appear to have been purposefully selective. And so even though stories of these appearances were likely all over, we don't know that any of the religious leaders saw Him. Maybe yes, maybe no. And some of the religious leaders may have seen Him and been saved - we just don't know. But let's say, for argument's sake, that some religious group members DID see Him, believe, repent and were saved - and that such people came back to their leadership and related such stories. It's easy to see how those relating such stories or even personal experiences would have been easily dismissed and drummed out, or threatened into silence as heretics worthy of death. And even if such witnesses to a post-Resurrection Christ had written letters, they would have long ago been lost to history - unless, they were hidden in caves or such, yet undiscovered ( a very exciting possibility).

I wouldn't worry about that objection. As noted above, it's faulty to assume that the enemies of Jesus would provide written documentation of His resurrection or empty tomb. But as it stands, we have plenty of reasons for thinking that His enemies did bear witness to those facts. They are extrapolated from the biblical documents, but that is hardly a problem unless you're just a raving atheist who doesn't want to bother thinking critically and historically about first century documentation.

But for your own information, here's a few things you might want to look into:

1. Matthew's narrative about the guard at the tomb presupposes a debate between the Christians and Jews about what happened to Jesus' body. The suggestion that the disciples stole the body presupposes that it was missing.

2. The fact that Jesus was proclaimed resurrected in Jerusalem by 35-36 AD at the latest, a mere three to six years (again, at most) after His death requires the implicit testimony of Christ's enemies to His empty tomb; for had the tomb not been empty, they would have pointed to the body. It is inconceivable that Christianity would take hold as a Jewish sect in Jerusalem if the body were not missing.

3. Paul was originally an enemy of Christ and member of the group that had Jesus killed, so his testimony has to be taken very seriously (unless you want to start positing idiotic conspiracy theories).

4. And finally, Talmudic tradition dating in writing to a couple of centuries after Jesus and certainly long before that orally (probably back to Jesus' own time) attests to a wide variety of biblical facts concerning Jesus, including the crucifixion and empty tomb.

So, yeah, just some thoughts or you to chew on.

*Raises hand*

I must admit that I have heard such an idea/statement/claim before and I'm not surprised by it either.

Then again the lack of supporting information/evidence regarding the astronomical happenings of the Bethlehem star would possibly be in the same category.

Very much cheers to all.

Thadeyus wrote:*Raises hand*

I must admit that I have heard such an idea/statement/claim before and I'm not surprised by it either.

Then again the lack of supporting information/evidence regarding the astronomical happenings of the Bethlehem star would possibly be in the same category.

Very much cheers to all.

Hi Thad, go to you tube and search Bethlehem star and watch the series of videos.

There is a heap of supporting evidence for the "star", you will understand the quotations once you have watch it.

I will see if I can find a link.

Found it http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gLqzKYmTGcc

That is the first part in the series. Edit* it seems that the full show has been taken down from youtube but I found another person who is using the astronomy software that it explains it also, see below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8XKvHtVm1E

Unfortuantely it seems you have to buy the DVD to watch the whole thing, it used to be free but you can read about it on their website. http://www.bethlehemstar.net/setting-th ... -this-now/

Dan

So...not being obtuse or other wise boorish, and I apologize for being slow on th uptake, but (After searching through a LOT of cross links that were listed there/above) the wondrous, awesome star....Was the retrograde motion of Jupiter?

*scratches head* Sorry....I take it I'm missing something.

Perhaps I've not followed the right links through to the proper pages/information...Ponders some more*

Also not to diverge too much from the initial posters opening idea and hence gist of this thread.

Very much cheers to all.

Thadeyus wrote:So...not being obtuse or other wise boorish, and I apologize for being slow on th uptake, but (After searching through a LOT of cross links that were listed there/above) the wondrous, awesome star....Was the retrograde motion of Jupiter?

*scratches head* Sorry....I take it I'm missing something.

Perhaps I've not followed the right links through to the proper pages/information...Ponders some more*

Also not to diverge too much from the initial posters opening idea and hence gist of this thread.

Very much cheers to all.

Yep the thread has been derailed enough. If you want to discuss the star of Bethlehem maybe start a new topic.

Edit* I found the whole movie http://archive.org/details/TheStarOfBethlehem.divx