Evidence for God from Science

Out of the tens of thousands of years why did God choose to show himself only 3000 years ago and let billions go to hell?

In terms of population figures there are not billions before Christ. There are certainly billions after Christ so that argument is invalid. Besides if you read Romans you will see that people before Christ are covered.

And Romans 1 tells us that God had ALREADY significantly revealed to all, even those without even The Law and the prophets, about His major attributes: "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."

So, even such people without the Gospel or the Jewish OT teachings knew about God and His provisions for them and about His basic attributes, and yet they rejected even those, indicated by their response to what He had already showed them:

"For although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened." And so God has allowed those rejecting what He had already made clear to them to make up their own foolish religions and beliefs, as such people would rather follow gods made with their own hands than the God in Heaven Who Scripture tells us had clearly revealed Himself to.

And so "because THEY exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever!" And as they had already rejected God as He had (partially) revealed Himself (Jesus and the Gospel yet unknown to them), and as Jesus is part of God, then they were necessarily rejected God as He truly is (Father, Son, Spirit). And, obviously, God deemed that knowledge of the Gospel or any more depth of understanding about Him would have only been rejected as well, and thus unprofitable for them to have any knowledge of. Plus, remember that seeking God is a close as our own breath.

The Apostle Paul said that God "made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;" Note that God WANTED men to seek and find Him, and thus positioned them within time, place and culture to save the maximum so willing to believe, have faith, submit.

It is man whom God gives the ability to seek or reject Him, and He honors ALL who sincerely seek Him. Geography, distance and time are no barriers for the one who truly wants to know and honor God!

You guys provide a very satisfying answer except for one thing, how would people know what God wants for us without the holy scriptures?

Baltazorg wrote:You guys provide a very satisfying answer except for one thing, how would people know what God wants for us without the holy scriptures?

God's law is written in the hearts of all men, we would call this objective morality.

Romans 2:14-15
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Dan

My belief is, that no matter where in the world one lives and no matter how remote and untouched by the Gospel that is, IF one truly wants to know God, about Him and to honor Him, then He will make that possible. Asking obvious questions of and about Him, things that He has already put on people's hearts and minds, are as close as one's breath. And He will honor those whom reach back per what He has already shown them. And if they accept Him - even in the limited ways He has already provided for them (with key knowledge about His basic attributes and provision) - then I believe that He will make it possible for them to know the Gospel as well (see the story of Cornelius in Acts 10). As nothing is impossible for God. There are many stories how people in remote, pagan cultures have come to Christ, in many miraculous ways.

But God's foreknowledge of all hearts and minds (in ALL of history) have allowed Him to know precisely all whom would reject even the basic knowledge about Himself - knowledge that He has ALREADY provided them. And for many of those, both now and in past history, He has always known that they would only reject any further illumination, as they would/have already rejected what He would/has revealed to them (His character, basic attributes, His moral law on their hearts/conscience). And so, for all such rejecters (whom have not been given the Gospel), it would appear that a more complete revelation of God - specifically, knowledge of Jesus, The Cross/Resurrection, the need to repent) - would not profit such people, as they have always been and will remain for the rest of their lives, resistant and PERMANENTLY rejecting of Him. Such permanent rejecters never have a knowledge problem, but a heart one. And, of course, as God knows what men will be drawn to Him and embrace what He reveals and as He reveals, He has placed each in their precise geographical boundaries and times so that the maximum number of people whom will ultimately be willing to be saved, will be. But He reached to us FIRST - ALL of us - yet with varying levels of knowledge about Himself (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). As if He had not done so, no one would be saved. And to reject the Father is to also reject the Son and the Holy Spirit.

We often can't see that people already at least know God exists and about His basic attributes, but these things are often hidden within the hearts and minds of those in unbelief. We can't see what they DO know or the status of their hearts - but God can and always has known the life arc of their rejection - as He has always known, before our very births and even the beginning of time (He's ALL knowing), what a person will die as (either as a believer or as one whom refused to EVER believe and repent).

And remember, upon the merging of the new Heaven and the restored earth, there will be a vast number of people saved that include those from every tribe:

"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands ..." (Revelation 7:9). So, clearly, God has and will find a way to reach all whom so desire to know and positively RESPOND to His initiating and wooing.

philip wrote:
And remember, upon the merging of the new Heaven and the restored earth, there will be a vast number of people saved that include those from every tribe:

Philip,

This just caught my eye when I read your post. Why did you use the term, "restored earth", as opposed to "new earth", that the bible uses?

Revelation 21:1
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

This just caught my eye when I read your post. Why did you use the term, "restored earth", as opposed to "new earth", that the bible uses?

Rick, I used the term, "restored earth," as there are good theological reasons to believe that the earth will not be COMPLETELY destroyed but that all of its evil and corruption will be destroyed through God's judgement, and that it will be transformed into a renewed earth that is superior in quality and character. Of the 2 Peter 3:10 passage that speaks of "heavens that will disappear with a roar" and "elements that will be destroyed by fire," and "the earth and everything in it will be laid bare" - but John Piper says of this, "What Peter may well mean is that at the end of this age there will be cataclysmic events that bring this world to an end as we know it - not putting it out of existence, but wiping out all that is evil and cleansing it by fire and fitting it for an age of glory and righteousness and peace that will never end."

Note that in the same 2 Peter passage the parallel drawn between the earth in the time of Noah, which was "destroyed" by flood, and the time when the present world will be destroyed in judgement - but next by fire instead of water (2 Peter 3:6-7). The flood was cataclysmic and devastating, rid the earth of corruption, but yet the earth remained, changed and ready for Noah's family and the animals to re-populate the earth transformed through God's judgment. But the terms indicating the earth is to be "burned up" don't appear in the oldest Greek manuscripts. They contain a word that means "found" or "shown." The NIV translates it as "laid bare" and the ESV uses the word "exposed."

Theologian Cornelius Venema states that, "The word used in the older and better manuscripts conveys the idea of a process that does not so much destroy or burn up, but uncovers or lays open for discovery the creation, now in a renewed state of pristine purity." Theologian Albert Wolters has stated that, "translations of this text have often been influenced by a world view that denies the continuity between the present and future state of creation." Also, quite a few ancient theologians have referenced a continuity between the old/present earth and the one to come, including Jerome, Gregory the Great, Thomas Aquinas, and various medieval theologians.

When Revelation 21:1 speaks of "a new heaven and a new earth, the Greek word used is kainos, often translated as "new." But according to the Bauer-Danker Lexicon, amongst the most highly respected for translating biblical Greek, "kainos" means new "in the sense that what is old has become obsolete, and should be replaced by what is new. In such a case, the new is, as a rule, superior to the the old."

In his wonderful book, "Heaven," Randy Alcorn addresses this issue of continuity between the present earth and the new, radically transformed and beautified earth that will one day merge with heaven - especially in chapter 15, "Will the Old Earth be Destroyed ... or Renewed?" I think he presents compelling evidence for the latter.

Alcorn uses the analogy of our bodily resurrections:

"As God may gather the scattered DNA and atoms and molecules of our bodies, He will regather all He needs of the scorched and disfigured earth. As our old bodies will be raised to new bodies, so the old earth will be raised to become the New Earth. So, will the earth be destroyed or renewed? The answer is both - but the "destruction" will be temporal and partial, whereas the renewal will be eternal and complete."