Evidence for God from Science

How do you understand Mark 4:11-12? I am not sure what to think.

Oh, am now reading Mark 4:34 and seems that that time only disciples were revealed things.

1over137 wrote:How do you understand Mark 4:11-12? I am not sure what to think.

Jesus was making reference to this:

Psalms 14:2, "The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God." NKJV

Psalms 14:1,3 goes on to explain that the fool says in their heart – there is no God and all have turned away from God and cannot maintain good. Psalms 14:6 NKJV mentions the poor i.e. poor in Spirit (Matthew 5:3). Look at the Beatitudes n Matthew 5:2-10. Notice that in Psalms 14 several types of people are mentioned which are Fools, straying humanity, poor in spirit, whom the Lord set’s free from captivity.

Next read and notice verse 19:

Psalms 102:16-36," For the LORD shall build up Zion; He shall appear in His glory. 17 He shall regard the prayer of the destitute, and shall not despise their prayer. 18 This will be written for the generation to come, that a people yet to be created may praise the LORD.

19 For He looked down from the height of His sanctuary; From heaven the LORD viewed the earth, 20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner, To release those appointed to death, 21 To declare the name of the LORD in Zion, And His praise in Jerusalem, 22 When the peoples are gathered together, And the kingdoms, to serve the LORD. NKJV

Notice also in Psalms 69 mentions those who seek God i.e. poor/humbled in Spirit…

Psalms 69:32-36, "The humble shall see this and be glad; And you who seek God, your hearts shall live. 33 For the LORD hears the poor, and does not despise His prisoners. 34 Let heaven and earth praise Him, The seas and everything that moves in them. 35 For God will save Zion and build the cities of Judah, that they may dwell there and possess it. 36 Also, the descendants of His servants shall inherit it, and those who love His name shall dwell in it." NKJV

Back to Mark 4:11-12

What you have is God using parables to separate the wheat from the chaff as God’s way to expose willful blindness, heartfelt rejection, and self righteous behavior from those who are poor in spirit, who will have their heart made pure by God’s hand alone, who embrace God's reconciling embrace.

In others words, some will hear/believe and others will not hear/believe of their own volition which responds to the hearing of God breathed parables and His words designed to invoke and produce a choice within the heart of a human being to embrace God's reconciling embrace.

Please note these verses - John 6:64 and John 14:9

It is the way the word of God works within the heart of man. With this in mind, read Mark 4:1-34 again.

Truly God test the heart by His Word… (Jer 17:10 and Eccl 3:18c)

Mark 4:13-19 NKJV, "And He said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?

The sower sows the word. And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. (Eccl 3:18c)

These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word's sake, immediately they stumble. (Eccl 3:18c)

Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. (Eccl 3:18c)

But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept (embrace) it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred." (Romans 10:17c)

The Lord knows who are his and his disciples he teaches as you mentioned finding in Mark 4:34.

Now read Matthew 28:19, 20...

Interesting isn't it?
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More References:

1 Sam 16:7, Psalms 7:9, Proverbs 17:3, Heb 4:12-13, Rev 2:23

Thanks BW.

So that those with not humble heart may not understand.

1over137 wrote:Thanks BW.

So that those with not humble heart may not understand.

What does the scripture say on this matter?

Matthew 13:23

The three gospel accounts give three characteristics of the good hearer. In Matthew, He who understands the word. In Mark 4: 20, He who accepts it.

In Luke 8:15 it adds to the list, "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance." NASB

All three mention having heard the Word…

You have understands (puts together intelligently) the word mentioned in Matthew.

In Mark you have one who accepts (embraces - cultivates) the word.

Luke mentions one who hears with an honest (denoting from Greek - Well Balanced Character), good (Denoting from the Greek - useful, profitable, virtuous) heart, hold fast (Hold-Fast which implies an emphatic holding, retaining, possessing, in the sense of - taking a hold of) the word which bears fruit with enduring patience…

The Luke passage, in my opinion is difficult to render into English from the Greek the words honest and good heart. The tone from the language I get is that it is conveying the idea of those that hear whose character and heart is being changed into state of usefulness. The person takes hold of this and the usefulness is defined as bearing fruit with perseverance. It fits the circumcised heart promises from Deut 30:6 and Ezekiel 36:26, 27 etc…

The word heard with understanding and acceptance changes the hearer’s heart, improving his/her character and virtue, causing them to be useful in the Lord’s hands to bear fruit and endure the seasonal hardships and tending that is needed to produce crops - fruit…

Notice conceptual thought flow of this in Matthew 13:24-33 and Mark 4: 21-33…

Any other thoughts on the Luke passage?
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Thanks BW

I just hope I will become "a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches."

[edit: no other thoughts on Luke yet. But I will come to Luke after Mark]

I was very please to find this discussion here because I am studying it now and I am stuck.

Mark 4:10 When He was alone with the Twelve, those who were around Him asked Him about the parables. 11 He answered them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those outside, everything comes in parables 12 so that

they may look and look,
yet not perceive;
they may listen and listen,
yet not understand;
otherwise, they might turn back—
and be forgiven.”

Jesus is quoting Is 6:9-10

Isaiah 6:9-10
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
9 And He replied:

Go! Say to these people:
Keep listening, but do not understand;
keep looking, but do not perceive.
10 Dull the minds[a] of these people;
deafen their ears and blind their eyes;
otherwise they might see with their eyes
and hear with their ears,
understand with their minds,
turn back, and be healed.

I understand that some see and hear, but reject it. People have to be open to what is being taught.

But I am stuck on what I put in bold above.

It sounds like Jesus is saying that He is keeping some people from understanding -- like He doesn't want to help them to understand because if they do, they will turn back and be healed.

Does Jesus only want a select few to understand His message? Was Jesus preventing the others from understanding and have their sins forgiven? Did Jesus come to save everyone of just some?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Christian2 wrote:I was very please to find this discussion here because I am studying it now and I am stuck.

Mark 4:10 When He was alone with the Twelve, those who were around Him asked Him about the parables. 11 He answered them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those outside, everything comes in parables 12 so that

they may look and look,
yet not perceive;
they may listen and listen,
yet not understand;
otherwise, they might turn back—
and be forgiven.”

Jesus is quoting Is 6:9-10

Isaiah 6:9-10
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
9 And He replied:

Go! Say to these people:
Keep listening, but do not understand;
keep looking, but do not perceive.
10 Dull the minds[a] of these people;
deafen their ears and blind their eyes;
otherwise they might see with their eyes
and hear with their ears,
understand with their minds,
turn back, and be healed.

I understand that some see and hear, but reject it. People have to be open to what is being taught.

But I am stuck on what I put in bold above.

It sounds like Jesus is saying that He is keeping some people from understanding -- like He doesn't want to help them to understand because if they do, they will turn back and be healed.

Does Jesus only want a select few to understand His message? Was Jesus preventing the others from understanding and have their sins forgiven? Did Jesus come to save everyone of just some?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Keep in mind this verse, John 6:64, when reading the text in the gospel accounts.

Also look at this verse as well too: Heb 4:12 ESV, " For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart " See Heb 4:13, 14, 15, 16 too...

Jesus said this as well too in Mat 10:34 ESV, "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"

Notice in the Mark 4:10 passage you mentioned that Jesus said what about whom: "they may look and look, yet not perceive; they may listen and listen, yet not understand; otherwise, they might turn back—and be forgiven."

Ask yourself, who was responsible for the hearing, seeing, and understanding?

Read Isaiah 6:9-10 HCSB again: "Go! Say to these people: Keep listening, but do not understand; keep looking, but do not perceive. 10 Dull the minds of these people; deafen their ears and blind their eyes; otherwise they might see with their eyes and hear with their ears, understand with their minds, turn back, and be healed."

What does dulling the mind mean and what does the Isaiah text mean by the word understanding? Let's explore - put it together...

The Hebrew word for understanding is the verb yāda‛: which basically means to know in relationship someone and also it means to know experientially as in skilled to make known what you know - in the case of a person it is the ability to express that individual's reputation to others because you know their character personally - who they are due to the relationship.

Next, the Hebrew word translated dull is the verb kābēd which meaning is derived from contextual usage. This word means - to weigh heavily as in to gain honor, or to make dull, to weigh down as to harden. In the context of Isaiah the word refers to hardening of the heart...

What Jesus is saying is found in Isaiah 29:13 ESV, "And the Lord said: "Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment taught by men"

He is revealing how the Word divides and reveals the intent of the heart. Even though he knows all things, he still ushers his word to all, in this the justice of His character is proven true. Sin is their own. They rejected the work of the Word (see John 1:1,2, 3, 14) of their own accord. The word of God - the gospel - divides and exposes the intent of the heart of men and women and in this - whom they love the most is revealed. He already knows the result of his word will have on every soul from eternity past, yet, still calls to all. In the Mark passage, people honor God with talk but that is all that it is. They do not know the giver of the Word or spent time getting to know YHWH as in a unique relationship and from that, express his character/name renown, honor in their own words, actions, and heart.

What does Isa 12:4, Malachi 1:11, 12,13, 14 and Ezekiel 39:7 reveal about making his Name known?

See also: Psalms 89:1, Psalms 96:3, Psalms 105:1,2,3,4,5, Psalms 145:4-6, Psalms 145:11-12 - God wants his name known... himself known - not the traditions of men. Think about it, to make known a Name means you know the one who bears the Name...

The word of God divides those who do not care to know from those who care to know because the Word creates the conditions for choice when before there was none. Just ponder this a bit more and later tell us what you see.
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Thank you very much, BW. I finally got it with your excellent help.