Sam1995 wrote:I am not going to explain my personal position on this thread. instead I want to hear your viewpoints just as a matter of curiosity. As followers and children of God, are we chosen by Him as the apostle Paul says? or rather did we choose God completely of our own free will or is there a compromise to be made here? Like I said - no Biblical references from me as of yet as I am not explaining my view as of now!
What do you think? i understand that is very quickly develops into a free will vs predestination argument but we have enough threads for that so let's just stick to is specific topic!
Sam
Let's take it form what Jesus said in John...
"
You did not choose (εξελεξασθε - 1586) Me but I chose (εξελεξαμην 1586) you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. " John 15:16 NASB
The key to understanding is found in the Greek word εξελεξασθε - εξελεξαμην used in the language here. It depends on if an Arminian or Calvinist is seeking to buttress their positions that confuses this word and its intended meaning in the text.
AMG OT and NT Word Dictionary points out something interesting quoted below:
eklégō; fut. ekléxō, from ek (1537), out, and légō (3004), to select, choose. To choose, select, choose for oneself, not necessarily implying the rejection of what is not chosen, but giving favor to the chosen subject, keeping in view a relationship to be established between the one choosing and the object chosen. It involves preference and selection from among many choices. In the NT found only in the mid. eklégomai
And Vines Dictionary reads for this word:
Choice, Choose, Chosen
A. Verbs.
1. eklego (G1586), "to pick out, select," means, in the middle voice, "to choose for oneself," not necessarily implying the rejection of what is not chosen, but "choosing" with the subsidiary ideas of kindness or favor or love, Mark 13:20; Luke 6:13; Luke9:35 (RV); Luke10:42; Luke14:7; John6:70; John13:18; John 15:16, John 15:19; Acts 1:2, Acts 1:24; Acts 6:5; Acts 13:17; Acts 15:22, Acts 15:25; in Acts 15:7 it is rendered "made choice"; 1 Co 1:27-28; Eph 1:4; James 2:5.
The word is a compound word from ek (1537) out of, and légō (3004) and here is where folks miss what is being said.
Look at AMG Dictionary again for Lego:
légō; fut. léxō. Originally to lay or let lie down for sleep, to lay together, i.e., to collect. Finally to lay before, i.e., to relate, recount; and hence the prevailing Attic and later meaning of to say, speak, i.e., to utter definite words, connected and significant speech equal to discourse. It thus differs in some instances from laléō (G2980), to utter sounds, which may refer only to words spoken and not to their connected sense. In the NT:
I) To lay before, i.e., to relate such as a parable, to put forth, propound, with the dat. of person
(II) To say, speak, discourse.
(A) Generally and construed (1) With an adjunct of the object, i.e., the words spoken, the thing or person spoken of. (a) Followed by the words uttered
The idea is speech - a calling out.
Now think about it. An all knowing God decides to call out to those lost and does - would he not also know the results of His on calling out will have on all people before any was ever born in order to be absolutely all knowing??
Would not His calling out to all people everywhere prove He is absolutely Just and Righteous in all he does and is???
If some reject (unbelief) would that be their own selection or God's?
When The Lord eklégomai - it involves Him and His Word that God's forth - it involves a selection based upon God calling out first and only - not us but him.
Ponder this - if God remained silent in the Garden of Eden after the fall of Humanity and decided to remain silent to all future generations as well too, then, how could anyone ever be saved?
In fact how could the denial of calling out a divine -
where are you Gen 3:9 - be just?
What does Gen 3:9 say to you?
If by arbitrary selection only - why did God say
where are you (Gen 3:9) with choice in mind for the hearers to respond too?
The problem people have is comparing God to human Kings and Leaders who are arbitrary in selection and moving that into the realm of theology. God's Sovereignty, like God Himself is far deeper and not limited to any one particular means of accomplishing something. To be absolutely all powerful indicates the ability to be not limited in just one way but rather a diverse omnipotent ways that steer things to a desired goal that proves the God is absolutely, Righteous, Just, Merciful, in all his way - way beyond what we can fully grasp. In this way He can be merciful with who He Calls and unmerciful to who he calls - He can harden...
Think about it
Think outside the box...
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