Jesus and culture...

[zacchaeus]

Did Jesus embrace His culture around Him? Or was He counter cultural?

If we are in the world, not of it (Christ being the one Who separated us), have we not already embraced the culture?

[B. W.]

Did Jesus embrace His culture around Him? Or was He counter cultural?

If we are in the world, not of it (Christ being the one Who separated us), have we not already embraced the culture?

I am not sure if I understand what you were saying in that last statement...

What do you think Jesus did?

It appears he embraced the culture of the Jewish people of that temple era, yet, was rejected by it.
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[PeteSinCA]

Did Jesus embrace His culture around Him? Or was He counter cultural?

If we are in the world, not of it (Christ being the one Who separated us), have we not already embraced the culture?

I would say that the answer to the first two questions is, "Yes." The Law of Moses was a dominant part of the culture in which Jesus lived, and Jesus fulfilled the Law (i.e. "embraced" His culture). At the same time, Jesus confronted and condemned, rather than embraced, the unrighteousnesses and hypocrisies that were part of His culture. IOW, Jesus embraced that which was right and good in His culture, but was not owned by or conformed to the wrong and evil thereof. Because Jesus' standard, ultimately, was God's Word, He was in but not of the world.

Christians are to be likewise. Our standard is God's Word. If/When our culture and/or laws contradict God's Word, we are to obey God rather than men. Consequences may flow from that stance - in human cultural and legal contexts - but we are to receive that as part of our obedience to God. Much of the West has been blessed these past few centuries that conflicts between our culture and laws have been significantly less than the conflicts in the First Century. That situation - in Western Europe and North America - appears to be changing, unpleasantly. I almost said. "changing, for the worse," but conflict tends to strengthen true believers and drive away those who are not truly believers; a severe blessing, in the long term.

[zacchaeus]

Sorry about that bw, let me try to clarify...

In discussing i asked how should Christians embrace today's culture on another forum.

That was all i said... what followed was embracing is conforming and that we are in this world but not to be of it...

Fair enough but my response is or was only Christ can do that, it is Christ Himself Who separates us... we are not of this world no longer we are just in it. But by living in it we have already embraced culture have we not? So i was trying to nip that before it came up!

After Christ, as in receiving Him, we do everything in the light, so our culture is all around us, way we talk, dress, go, eat, etc. So if i go to a concert, eat at a bar, or how i dress wouldn't make me less a Christian nor lose that status- Jesus was in the street in the so called hood of that day.

[PeteSinCA]

zacch, Jesus' words do not mean, IMO, that Christians are to utterly reject, avoid and live contrary to the culture in which they live - as the Amish do in many respects, frankly. Jesus was talking about our motivations, what controls us. I've always liked J. B. Phillips' translation (very thought-by-thought) of Romans 12:2: "Don’t let the world around you squeeze you into its own mould, but let God re-mould your minds from within".

It's being realistic and practical. Christian believers' values come from God's Word. That doesn't change with the various winds of cultural fad and fashion, so there will always be some areas of tension or outright conflict. At the same time, a cultural isolationist is going to have a hard time reaching people whose culture the isolationist doesn't understand, for having rejected and avoided it.

[zacchaeus]

Thanks for your response... i would like to respond some of what i said and then a response i received!

I responded with the thought that we should embrace, engage, and transform... just as Jesus meets us where we are we too meet others where they are! Paul came all unto all to gain even if it meant just One! Christians who, knowingly or unknowingly, embrace Christ without the culture become captives of the culture they don't embrace, as its then defined by those who control its commanding heights. Can't live in a bubble, while everything else deteriorates!

The response i received : Seems to me...you are describing non-conforming to he world...meeting them...the lost where they are is NOT embracing. Embracing is acceptance. Do you accept the gay lifestyle? Do you accept the immoral lifestyles of any? Do we embrace sin? What you believe is tolerance. Jesus was NOT tolerant....and no matter HOW you try to sugar coat the relativism you are trying too embrace...it is unbiblical and unbecoming a Christian. Now maybe the Pentecostals or Word of Faith people believe you can change Gods Word....but you cant. A Christian has accepted Truth, not just as a concept, but as a Person. This acknowledgment of Truth distances the Christian from the so-called “open-mindedness” of the day.

2 Corinthians 11:4, Paul wrote, “For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.” People modifiy their concept of Jesus to fit their culture. When this happens, it isn’t long before our theology gets modified to fit our personal version of Jesus. This leads to serious error. Jesus took sin seriously, very seriously. He’s the one who said that looking lustfully at a woman is the same as committing adultery with her. He equated having hate in one’s heart with murder. He wasn’t known for His tolerance of sinful behavior. Jesus’ purpose was to transforms hearts, not culture....and neither did He ever embrace such.

[zacchaeus]

Followed by i should repent cause im backsliding by embracing culture, when really i only asked a question... how should Christians embrace our culture?

[PeteSinCA]

I responded with the thought that we should embrace, engage, and transform... just as Jesus meets us where we are we too meet others where they are! Paul came all unto all to gain even if it meant just One!

Well expressed! I think you were semi-quoting 1 Corinthians 9:22.

Christians who, knowingly or unknowingly, embrace Christ without the culture become captives of the culture they don't embrace, as its then defined by those who control its commanding heights. Can't live in a bubble, while everything else deteriorates!

Refusing or declining to engage the culture in which one lives both violates Jesus' command to reach out to people with the Gospel and cannot work. It violates Jesus' command, not so much by by failing/refusing to speak out, but by erecting a barrier to communication God's Word does not command or approve. Isolation cannot work, because if Christians decline/refuse to be salt and light in their culture, that culture will invade and/or engulf them.

Embracing is acceptance. Do you accept the gay lifestyle? Do you accept the immoral lifestyles of any? Do we embrace sin? What you believe is tolerance. Jesus was NOT tolerant....and no matter HOW you try to sugar coat the relativism you are trying too embrace...it is unbiblical and unbecoming a Christian.

I'm unclear what you mean here. Do you have the impression I would accept sinful lifestyles as "OK"? I do not. Or are you "responding" to views not expressed here but are "out there"?

Now maybe the Pentecostals or Word of Faith people believe you can change Gods Word....but you cant.

Ummmm ... yeah ... If you search hard enough, long enough, you might find a Pentecostal or a charismatic or a Word of Faith type person who believes " you can change Gods Word". Or maybe you've accidentally stumbled across such a person. The same kind of attitude can be found - looking hard and long enough - among non-Pentecostal (etc.) Christians. Harold Camping, who used to be quite theologically orthodox and quite non-Pentecostal, comes to mind. Harold Camping isn't mainstream theologically conservative Christian; "people (who) believe you can change Gods Word," are just as far from mainstream among Pentecostals and charismatics. I make that statement from the position of having been a member of charismatic churches for over two decades, and having read books written by mainstream Pentecostals and charismatics for over four decades.

People modifiy their concept of Jesus to fit their culture.

People who do this puzzle me and impress me as less than honest. Jesus, in His time on Earth, was who He was, and the Gospels make what He was quite plain. That real Jesus should be embraced or rejected. Trying to squeeze Jesus into some pop-culture mold (21st Century or 11th Century) and the intellectual gymnastics and pretzallization that entails are silly.

[zacchaeus]

The latter wasn't me, the part of homosexual lifestyle was a response from someone to me... i was looking for what and how you would respond to him. Last post was two responses, first mine then his!

[zacchaeus]

I used your thoughts in the last paragraph, dude said to immerse in culture is to immerse in death, that i must be an idiot... to show him these fallacies in scripture!!!