Evidence for God from Science

Guys, as much as it pains me to do this, its time for me to take my bow and leave. Its been a real pleasure, I love you guys.

I have seen quite a hostility lately here for me and my views which has made me sad to be honest. I am not welcome here with my views. I never thought this was a creation specific board, a christian board of course...but it seems I was wrong. You have left me with no choice and I have to be honest, to myself foremost.

Gman, as much as I think we have never seen eye to eye, you are a brother nonetheless. however I found your behaviour and tone on the evolution thread to be bullyish when you could have easily split the topic but you didn't. I can't stand bullying not in the slightest way. I can just repost everything again in a new thread without all the derails but who is to stop you again. It tells me that you as a mod can do what you like and I don't think there is anyone here proper to oversee you or correct you or hear complains. None have openly at least which they should at times because you don't deserve that title when you make things personal which you did, and you are trigger happy too. I simply need to beg you guys again and again for something small but I am tired now. Don't think of it as a personal dig at you, I say this in sincerity because somethings are just wrong and quite frankly paints the board in the wrong light.

Also, slightly offtopic but I also have to ask you for forgiveness Gman, for I have been, in the past, guilty of being harsh towards your passionate topic too. I have been guilty of hypocrisy brother. I realize that it must have been very wrong of me at times in the past, I do realize it now. Its a lesson well learnt for me. So please, for what its worth, I apologize to you sincerely and hope you forgive me.

On the whole, I have no complaints guys, I have learnt almost everything here. This board has been like a family to me, still is. And I miss old members, like bart, danny, august, reactionary. I am going to miss many here, Rick, Kurieuo, Hana, PaulSac, Silvertusk, Byblos, Ivellious, FL, B.W, Daniel, Mallz, Jilay, Jac and others, and your excellent wisdom, thoughtfulness, warmth and most of all, good times. I have learnt a lot from all of you.

You need to know but you guys were the only body of christ I had, on here and in real life too. I guess that is why recent events have disheartened me the most. But I will really miss this company. And I also say this to stress the fact that you are good people and isolated people like me, can find some comforting zone, in a board like this, which is a rarity to be frank and is a compliment from me. This is a nice special place and you need to be aware on how you carry it forward, how accepting you are of other christians and their views.

While I agree that this topic is not centered to our faith and its not this topic of evolution or your opposite views...but the negative attitude which I have seen lately, has pushed me to finally do this. Since I am in the minority I would not bother you anymore and make a mockery of this board by fighting for petty things and common courtesy. You guys need to reflect upon your overall stance on things you don't agree with and how to control your mods when they cross the lines. This board has been a very nice place but right now, I think some change is needed and I hope it comes. These are my two cents. I wish things had been different.

I also want to thank you Daniel, you were the only one who openly supported me, thank you really. I will remember your kindness. It means a lot to me. We need more level headed people like you. *Thumbs up*

My thanks to hughfray and thaydues for your encouraging remarks. I hope you enjoy the baord, like I once did.

So guys, this is what I honestly think. I am still on my blog The Critical Eye and if I get a pm on the board messaging system from any of you, I will try to get back to you; but I will not be posting here any longer. I hope you remember me more than just a evolution-nutcase. Take care, you are all good fellas, I wish you the best.

If anyone ever would like to say an occasional hello, my email is johndavid[dot]rev[at]gmail.com.

Peace and Respect.
Neo-x a.k.a John.

I hate to see you go, neo. With that said, I completely get where you are coming from. There's a reason I don't bother talking about YEC, too. If it weren't for the fact that one of the major offenders is a mod, I would say that I think that the mods here ought to insist on respect for differing views on Genesis 1, etc.

All the best to you.

Neo and the rest, I'm trying to wrap my head around why it has to come to this. I've always respected Neo's right to his own opinion. But I might not agree with it or with what he views as a fact. I may even disparage it as being mere, unprovable opinion. But Neo believes what he believes - that is HIS right. If he calls something a fact that I don't - well, so be it. I can challenge it but I don't have to agree with it. And I surely don't want him not to be able to express it. We're all big boys here, but it seems like some are letting their egos and thin skin get in the way - those of ALL sides of this. Neo has brought a lot of valuable input to this forum.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the only things I see as intolerable are those which degenerate God/Jesus/Scripture and are intentionally disrespectful to each other. If we want this to be a safe place for unbelievers questioning Christian beliefs, seems like we can also tolerate BELIEVERS who may not believe precisely the same way about everything as other believers do. "Iron sharpens iron" - but soap doesn't.

I sincerely hope you will reconsider, Neo. I also hope you and the other mods will prayerfully reconsider what has happened here. Let's not let egos, pride and anger ruin relationships.

All of this because of differing views on evolution? You need a thicker skin, neo.

Please reconsider. We need more smart people like you.

FL

neo-x wrote: Gman, as much as I think we have never seen eye to eye, you are a brother nonetheless. however I found your behaviour and tone on the evolution thread to be bullyish when you could have easily split the topic but you didn't. I can't stand bullying not in the slightest way. I can just repost everything again in a new thread without all the derails but who is to stop you again. It tells me that you as a mod can do what you like and I don't think there is anyone here proper to oversee you or correct you or hear complains. None have openly at least which they should at times because you don't deserve that title when you make things personal which you did, and you are trigger happy too. I simply need to beg you guys again and again for something small but I am tired now. Don't think of it as a personal dig at you, I say this in sincerity because somethings are just wrong and quite frankly paints the board in the wrong light.

Also, slightly offtopic but I also have to ask you for forgiveness Gman, for I have been, in the past, guilty of being harsh towards your passionate topic too. I have been guilty of hypocrisy brother. I realize that it must have been very wrong of me at times in the past, I do realize it now. Its a lesson well learnt for me. So please, for what its worth, I apologize to you sincerely and hope you forgive me.

I was just asking you for the empirical evidence for macro evolution. That is all. You then asked me for the empirical evidence for G-d. The answer is there is no empirical scientific evidence for macroevolution or for the existence of G-d. At some point the discussion just turns into a debate about philosophical differences. People try to divide philosophy and science where they don’t interfere, but you can’t do that. That was all I was trying to explain. So if that offends you then so be it.

Best wishes..

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:All of this because of differing views on evolution? You need a thicker skin, neo.

Please reconsider. We need more smart people like you.

FL

I didn't take it as being over differing views, FL. I took it as being over the tone in which the disagreements were made. Frankly, I'm surprised he put up with it as long as he did. Disagreement is one thing. Nearly abusive tones are quote another. You can claim that people need to get a thicker skin all you want. I would remind you of the Golden Rule. You want people who disagree with you to do so with respect. We should treat those with whom disagree with the same respect.

*Salutes Neo-x*

Good luck and god speed.

Jac3510 wrote: I didn't take it as being over differing views, FL. I took it as being over the tone in which the disagreements were made. Frankly, I'm surprised he put up with it as long as he did. Disagreement is one thing. Nearly abusive tones are quote another. You can claim that people need to get a thicker skin all you want. I would remind you of the Golden Rule. You want people who disagree with you to do so with respect. We should treat those with whom disagree with the same respect.

Yes...you are right. Sorry.

FL

The silence from certain people here seems deafening! Or maybe they haven't logged in today? Guess the devil is quite pleased whenever he can get the Fish People bitterly fighting amongst themselves.

John, I apologize for not stepping into discussions. As you know, i was busy with wedding and even did not have time to check all posts. Somehow i think i could do something to revert this. Please john, do not leave entirely. Come back some day. You debated atheists on this forum gently and with this friendliness influenced their lives. You influenced my so much 2 years ago.

Thank you for all you have done and hope you will do for this board.
Brother

Neo,

I've tried 3 times to write a post here, and no words came out. Last night, I tried to pm you, and no words came out then either. I still really don't know what to say.

I know it's your choice if you want to leave the board, but I hope you decide to stay. As bad as this seems right now, I think we all can work through this.

You are a very important part of this board, and I think if we as a group can work through this, we will be much stronger. I love you as a brother in Christ, and for you to say that this is the only group of believers that you associate with, and you want to leave, troubles me.

I understand if you decide to leave, but I know we can find a way to work through this if you decide to stay.

I really hope you reconsider Neo, I have always liked you and your posts and have always seen you as a very valuable member.
Your going is OUR Loss.

Please listen to Rick, Neo.

Jac3510 wrote:I hate to see you go, neo. With that said, I completely get where you are coming from. There's a reason I don't bother talking about YEC, too. If it weren't for the fact that one of the major offenders is a mod, I would say that I think that the mods here ought to insist on respect for differing views on Genesis 1, etc.

All the best to you.

Jac,
Insisting on respect for differing creation views is exactly the point of my starting this whole issue with Neo. Most people here understand a creation view, whether TE, OEC, or YEC, is a view. Neo was asserting evolution as a fact, while saying creationists get their science from their favorite pastors. That didn't seem respectful of other views to me. I wish I didn't have to point this out in this thread, but I needed to explain AGAIN, why I did what I did.
As far as Gman's posts, I'll let him explain them. I know he was frustrated with Neo calling his belief 'fact' too.

And we all know these discussions can get heated. Not making excuses, just saying it came from both sides.