Is this guy teaching works salvation?

[cubeus19]

Hey guys, I was looking around on youtube and I found the headline to this video somewhat disturbing,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbWaaBqA0tE

After I saw a bit about the video and went to the guy's website I looked up his belief's and he holds to something called "repentance salvation". Here is the beliefs section of his website:

http://kingdomwarriors.com/beliefs/

I don't know for sure, but does it look like this is some sort of clever sounding version of works salvation? It currently looks that way to me but I"m not sure, let me know what you think.

[RickD]

Cubeus,

Why do you believe he is promoting a works based salvation?

From the link:

The GOOD NEWS is that IF we decide to REPENT and FORSAKE our sins, and put our FAITH in Jesus Christ, He indeed will forgive us and cleanse us! Amen! This is because IF we are TRULY BORN AGAIN through genuine repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, we now have an ongoing RELATIONSHIP with the King of Kings and we experience His love and transformation in our lives through the Holy Spirit! What a privilege and blessing! Amen! And Jesus tells us that out of this genuine RELATIONSHIP we WILL BEAR MUCH FRUIT because we are in Him (John 14, 15, 16).

What do you think he means by "repentance", and forsaking our sins?

[cubeus19]

Actually I think I answered my own question, and that he IS teaching works salvation. Here is a video I found just awhile ago that goes more into detail as far as examining what he believes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRM1epboEbg

[RickD]

Actually I think I answered my own question, and that he IS teaching works salvation. Here is a video I found just awhile ago that goes more into detail as far as examining what he believes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRM1epboEbg

Cubeus,

I think this video does a good job showing how kingdom warriors is preaching a false gospel of works. I think the video does make a mistake that I need to point out. The video says not only is the guy from kingdom warriors preaching a false gospel, but he's going to hell. There's no way to know that he's going to hell. What if the speaker put his trust in Christ alone at one point in his life? Then, by the video's argument, he would still be saved, even if he preaches a false gospel of works.

Otherwise, I think the video does a good job of showing that the kingdom warriors' preacher is preaching a false gospel of works.

[Silvertusk]

Though he does say this:

10) We are saved by grace through faith alone. No one can work or do enough good works to earn his salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9).

11) While we are saved by grace through faith alone, believers who have genuine faith will do the works and will of God or else they are not truly saved and they are deceiving themselves (James 1:22; James 2:17).

Which seems contradictory - but I suppose if you are not doing any good works then you are not really grateful for your salvation.

He is bit harsh in some places. How do you stop thinking lustful thoughts. Would be great if someone told me how to do that. Looks like I am going to hell.

Silvertusk.

[Byblos]

Though he does say this:

10) We are saved by grace through faith alone. No one can work or do enough good works to earn his salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9).

11) While we are saved by grace through faith alone, believers who have genuine faith will do the works and will of God or else they are not truly saved and they are deceiving themselves (James 1:22; James 2:17).

Which seems contradictory - but I suppose if you are not doing any good works then you are not really grateful for your salvation.

He is bit harsh in some places. How do you stop thinking lustful thoughts. Would be great if someone told me how to do that. Looks like I am going to hell.

Silvertusk.

The good works we do are not of our own, they are the good works already prepared for us from before the foundation of the world.

[Silvertusk]

Though he does say this:

10) We are saved by grace through faith alone. No one can work or do enough good works to earn his salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9).

11) While we are saved by grace through faith alone, believers who have genuine faith will do the works and will of God or else they are not truly saved and they are deceiving themselves (James 1:22; James 2:17).

Which seems contradictory - but I suppose if you are not doing any good works then you are not really grateful for your salvation.

He is bit harsh in some places. How do you stop thinking lustful thoughts. Would be great if someone told me how to do that. Looks like I am going to hell.

Silvertusk.

The good works we do are not of our own, they are the good works already prepared for us from before the foundation of the world.

oh. That old chestnut.

[Byblos]

The good works we do are not of our own, they are the good works already prepared for us from before the foundation of the world.

oh. That old chestnut.

In fact it's so old, it dates back to some guy in the first century (Ephesians 2:10).

[PeteSinCA]

This centers on a rather ill-defined "boundary" - what we do and what God does in us. Paul touched on it pretty directly in Philippians 2:13: "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." But he didn't say exactly where the boundary line is and exactly how it all works. I think this wasn't accidental; I'm content with knowing that doing right things is both - God working in me but me not being a robot.

[jlay]

He is absolutely preaching a false gospel of works.

It is really only a matter of whether one's religion slips them in the front door or back door.
Much, if not most of the new testament is instruction on how a beleiver SHOULD live. If works are the automatic result of believing, then the NT would be a pamphlet, not a theological exposition on what a believer is to do and not to do.

Though he does say this:

10) We are saved by grace through faith alone. No one can work or do enough good works to earn his salvation (<a class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Ephesians%202.8-9" target="_blank" data-reference="Ephesians 2.8-9" data-version="nasb95">Ephesians 2:8-9</a>).

11) While we are saved by grace through faith alone, believers who have genuine faith will do the works and will of God or else they are not truly saved and they are deceiving themselves (<a class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/James%201.22" target="_blank" data-reference="James 1.22" data-version="nasb95">James 1:22</a>; <a class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/James%202.17" target="_blank" data-reference="James 2.17" data-version="nasb95">James 2:17</a>).

Which seems contradictory - but I suppose if you are not doing any good works then you are not really grateful for your salvation.

you are wise to recognize the contradiction. It is religious double speak and the work of the enemy.

I would say at some point every day, I am not as grateful as I should be for my salvation. If we really, at any given moment, grasped our salvation, we would simply be overwhelmed and fall on our face in praise. But, I admit, that is not my spiritual posture most of the time.
If people think that works are required to be saved, then who are they looking at to measure salvation? Themselves. They are not looking at the finished work of Jesus. They are looking at their own performance. Therefore, their faith, at least at that moment, is in their actions and behavior and not in the message of Christ. (John 5:24)

The good works we do are not of our own, they are the good works already prepared for us from before the foundation of the world.

No one is denying that, only what role they play in whether or not one is saved. It is certainly impossible for a non-believer to produce said works. It is possible for a believer to not walk in the good works prepared for them.

True works are born out of our identity, "In Christ." As one gains confidence of their identity, they are fixing their eyes on Christ. Our identity is not based on our efforts, our committment, courage or bravery. It is based on knowing in our heart that we have been bought with a price and made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. This is how we transform our minds. If you are looking at your own performance, then your mind is still conformed to the world. This is the religious performance model, and no matter how it is packaged, it has no spiritual life in it.
If a person beleives that they must produce works to 'verify' their salvation, then their focus is already off of Christ and on themself. This leads to a person joining themself to a relgious system that provides them with a check list of things to do. As they fulfill the check list, they become self-righteousness. That person is no longer simply trusting that Christ saved them. But, instead they are trusting that their performance is evidence that they are saved. Now, most won't admit to this, but it is the reality of the situation. They will try to craft their argument or shift the focus. "Are you saying that people can live anyway they want to??" Which once again puts the focus on the person's behavior and not on Christ. Silver wisely recognized this as a contradiction.

[cubeus19]

Great insights on this guys, Just a few minutes ago, I came across this,

http://www.divinerevelations.info/Docum ... /index.htm

It's a near death experience or a nde which a person who claims to be a believer ends up in hell and finds out that many or if not most people who claim to be a believer end up in hell mainly because they haven't fully repented of their sins.

This also appears to me to be very similar to what the guy in my OP was saying, that you have to have a perfect or nearly perfect moral record both outwardly and inwardly (even with your thought life) plus faith in order to make it into heaven.

If all this is really true I would really, I mean REALLY love to meet such a believer who has a 100% perfect moral record, I personally don't think at least, not right now that it can really be done. Plus it contradicts many other Christian ndes that appear to give different messages about God, heaven and salvation. So that's my take on this thing, what do you all think?

[Jac3510]

Great insights on this guys, Just a few minutes ago, I came across this,

http://www.divinerevelations.info/Docum ... /index.htm

It's a near death experience or a nde which a person who claims to be a believer ends up in hell and finds out that many or if not most people who claim to be a believer end up in hell mainly because they haven't fully repented of their sins.

This also appears to me to be very similar to what the guy in my OP was saying, that you have to have a perfect or nearly perfect moral record both outwardly and inwardly (even with your thought life) plus faith in order to make it into heaven.

If all this is really true I would really, I mean REALLY love to meet such a believer who has a 100% perfect moral record, I personally don't think at least, not right now that it can really be done. Plus it contradicts many other Christian ndes that appear to give different messages about God, heaven and salvation. So that's my take on this thing, what do you all think?

I think you raise a good point. I wonder who of us has "fully" repented of our sins (answer: none of us--see 1 John 1:8, and remember that was written to believers; notice the "we" in that verse). Of course the other problem is that it makes Jesus a liar. Jesus did not say, "Everyone who fully repents of their sins has everlasting life." He says, "Everyone who believes in Me has everlasting life." People like that are just telling Jesus He didn't mean what He actually said, and that what He actually said is wrong. And, of course, to tell Jesus what He actually said is wrong is to disbelieve what He actually said, which is to say, it is to disbelieve in Him.

So yes, as has been said, that's salvation by works.