Evidence for God from Science

some say the Universe is infinity and was always here. what is the difference between that and god was always here, why cant they use the same argument about the universe always being here?

WannaLearn wrote:some say the Universe is infinity and was always here. what is the difference between that and god was always here, why cant they use the same argument about the universe always being here?

For a few reasons.

1) The universe is temporal. It has time and you cannot have an infinite regress of moments - because you would never reach the present.
2) Modern cosmology is pretty conclusive that the universe had a beginning in the big bang 13.8 billion years ago.
3) The Gorde, Buth, Velenken theorem states that anything that on average has been expanding through its history definitely has a beginning
4) God being eternal is not the same as saying that God has existed throughout all time - because time started at the big bang. There was a point when God was timeless existing prior to the creation but effectively he has always been here.

Silvertusk wrote:1) The universe is temporal. It has time and you cannot have an infinite regress of moments - because you would never reach the present.

Whether or not that argument works (and I don't think it does, but let that pass), if we allow that God is temporal as most evangelical scholars do these days, then goose and gander, this doesn't work to answer the question.

2) Modern cosmology is pretty conclusive that the universe had a beginning in the big bang 13.8 billion years ago.

Having a beginning doesn't make something unnecessary. If the singularity existed in a state of timelessness, then it makes no sense to say that it wasn't "always" here. Again, when people like Craig argue that God existed in a state of timelessness and then became temporal, then goose and gander, the same can be asserted about the universe.

3) The Gorde, Buth, Velenken theorem states that anything that on average has been expanding through its history definitely has a beginning.

Same issue as above. The beginning of the universe is irrelevant. The question is whether or not it came into being from non-being.

4) God being eternal is not the same as saying that God has existed throughout all time - because time started at the big bang. There was a point when God was timeless existing prior to the creation but effectively he has always been here.

Again, I don't see why if we can say God was timeless and became temporal that we can't say that about the universe.

Now, perhaps you just disagree with Craig and evangelical scholars (as I do), in which case, you would deny that God is temporal and your arguments would work. That is, if you affirm classical theism, then you have a good argument as to why God is necessary but the universe isn't. To the OP, then, I would say that the universe cannot be necessary because it is complex and thus contingent. God, however, is not complex--He is simple. He is, therefore, necessary. It makes no sense to speak of God's coming into or going out of being. It makes no sense to speak of God changing or of God being temporal. And that's the difference. The universe is contingent; God is necessary, and in both cases, that is true because of what they are.

The Universe as WE KNOW it, had a beginning and is expanding.
We know, for now at least, that THIS universe is subject to certain laws, temporal ones being among them.
There is no reason to believe that God, if He exists, is part of this universe or subject to it's laws as we know them.
Whatever was "before" this universe has nothing to do with what we know about THIS universe.

God is a SIMPLE Being, yet with unlimited capacity. He simply IS. He doesn't change. He stands outside of His Creation, of which in Him all things hold together.

The belief that the universe has always been in existence was what was once thought by scientists - a belief blown away long ago. All things in creation are dependent upon something else, and owe their existence to something else. Keep going back far enough, we see that the first things to come into existence were dependent upon SomeONE Else. NOTHING creates itself, nor is anything eternally self sustaining. And the laws of physics, chemistry, motion, etc all were in place at the very beginning. Laws don't create themselves. Neither did the universe they have always guided.

My curiosity is what was God doing BEFORE He created our universe? And ARE there others? WERE there ONCE other universes? Does God's "stereo's" mode switch go from Tape 1, CD, SurroundSound, Tuner, etc to Universes 1, 2, 99, etc? Dimensions 1 - 1,000, etc, etc? Were there countless universes that once began and at some point also were ended, by God? If so, it would not surprise me. Or maybe our universe is the only one that God has ever created? It's all a mystery. But God is not dependent upon His creations, yet He clearly enjoys them, has always had purposes for each. But He doesn't NEED them. He doesn't NEED us. He is complete and lacking nothing within the fellowship of His Trinity. But clearly, according to Scripture, the Lord will live amongst us in the New/future restored earth (merged with Heaven)- FOREVER. The destiny of all Christians is the future merged heaven and earth. So despite what there might have been before our universe, we do know where God will live with us FOREVER - the new/restored earth merged with Heaven. But speculating on what came before our universe, what God was doing during all that time, is fun to speculation on.

To begin to try to understand God means to accept that what we know about this universe, as limited as it is this knowledge we have, has nothing to do with God.
God is NOT of this universe so is NOT subject to its "laws".