Evidence for God from Science

They've proven through animal testing that it takes roughly a population of 2k-20k to sustain a viable species, if there were only two humans as the bible states then not only would it have been incest, but they could not have been able to have the human race last more than MAYBE a generation or two, and they would be mutated beyond belief even if they lasted that long.

Oh and I probably should say this is not my view but of someone who asked me this question who had doubts about the bible.

Ah...if I could, I'd send you a male & a female cockroach. I'd place them behind the refrigerator in your kitchen so they would be warm and have a supply of food.

Wanna guess how many cockroaches you'd have after a few months? a couple of years?

FL

Thats true Wannalearn, one single couple can not produce the genetic diversity we see in humans. You need a population of roughly 10000 to do that. There are some good articles on that in the evolution resource thread I posted a while ago. PLease read this post for more details.

neo-x wrote:Thats true Wannalearn, one single couple can not produce the genetic diversity we see in humans. You need a population of roughly 10000 to do that. There are some good articles on that in the evolution resource thread I posted a while ago. PLease read this post for more details.

Just out of curiosity - where do that 10,000 come from - Surely they do not just pop into existence? Why can't those 10,000 come from 2?

Silvertusk.

neo-x wrote:Thats true Wannalearn, one single couple can not produce the genetic diversity we see in humans. You need a population of roughly 10000 to do that. There are some good articles on that in the evolution resource thread I posted a while ago. PLease read this post for more details.

Of course, if a creator "preprogrammed" that genetic diversity, then it would be possible.

And, welcome back Neo.

Geez, that's a lot of convergent evolution needed for one species to get started.

OK...neo, send me your address. You need a couple of cockroaches too.

FL

Hey rick

Kurieuo wrote:Geez, that's a lot of convergent evolution needed for one species to get started.

What is important that populations evolve, as in the whole - combined genepool evolves, not individuals. You need roughly 10000 ancestors to account for the genetic diversity as we see in the human race, today.

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:OK...neo, send me your address. You need a couple of cockroaches too.

FL

Silvertusk wrote:

neo-x wrote:Thats true Wannalearn, one single couple can not produce the genetic diversity we see in humans. You need a population of roughly 10000 to do that. There are some good articles on that in the evolution resource thread I posted a while ago. PLease read this post for more details.

Just out of curiosity - where do that 10,000 come from - Surely they do not just pop into existence? Why can't those 10,000 come from 2?

Silvertusk.

But if I give you only two humans, even after 100,000 years you will not get from them, the same genetic diversity as we see today. Infact most likely because of incest and family intercourse, the population would be limited and not diverse at all, and fatality chances would be high, resulting in more deaths than not.

RickD wrote:

neo-x wrote:Thats true Wannalearn, one single couple can not produce the genetic diversity we see in humans. You need a population of roughly 10000 to do that. There are some good articles on that in the evolution resource thread I posted a while ago. PLease read this post for more details.

Of course, if a creator "preprogrammed" that genetic diversity, then it would be possible.

And, welcome back Neo.

Thank you Rick.

Yes, I would agree if the creator preprogrammed it then of course it would be possible. Evidence tells me he didn't. Just open up a plant dna and you won't find a blueprint for wings for birds in there or take apart human dna and you won't find the biological information necessary to form branches and leaves, wood and bark. Because the changes have evolved, they were not inherently always lying around in the dna.

Similarly if you take two asian parents and start a colony on mars, there is no way you will ever get an african kid, or an indian kid or a native american kid. The human dna of two individuals alone simply does not have that kind of diversity in it to form this type of variation which is present today.

neo-x wrote:But if I give you only two humans, even after 100,000 years you will not get from them, the same genetic diversity as we see today. Infact most likely because of incest and family intercourse, the population would be limited and not diverse at all, and fatality chances would be high, resulting in more deaths than not.

Hogwash/Baloney/Claptrap. In some 300 years, the population of Quebec grew from an original 1,000 to over 6 million, largely by inbreeding. Muslim immigrants here are now reproducing at a rate 5 times higher than the ''locals'' and their babies are not born with an arm sticking out of their forehead.

I also expect to live a longer life than you, not because I'm genetically superior but because I live in a country with better sanitation and health services.

Stop the science fiction, neo. Go with facts; go with what is plainly written in the Bible.

FL

neo-x wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:OK...neo, send me your address. You need a couple of cockroaches too.

FL

Silvertusk wrote:

neo-x wrote:Thats true Wannalearn, one single couple can not produce the genetic diversity we see in humans. You need a population of roughly 10000 to do that. There are some good articles on that in the evolution resource thread I posted a while ago. PLease read this post for more details.

Just out of curiosity - where do that 10,000 come from - Surely they do not just pop into existence? Why can't those 10,000 come from 2?

Silvertusk.

But if I give you only two humans, even after 100,000 years you will not get from them, the same genetic diversity as we see today. Infact most likely because of incest and family intercourse, the population would be limited and not diverse at all, and fatality chances would be high, resulting in more deaths than not.

So where do the 10,000 come from?

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

neo-x wrote:But if I give you only two humans, even after 100,000 years you will not get from them, the same genetic diversity as we see today. Infact most likely because of incest and family intercourse, the population would be limited and not diverse at all, and fatality chances would be high, resulting in more deaths than not.

Hogwash/Baloney/Claptrap. In some 300 years, the population of Quebec grew from an original 1,000 to over 6 million, largely by inbreeding. Muslim immigrants here are now reproducing at a rate 5 times higher than the ''locals'' and their babies are not born with an arm sticking out of their forehead.

I also expect to live a longer life than you, not because I'm genetically superior but because I live in a country with better sanitation and health services.

Stop the science fiction, neo. Go with facts; go with what is plainly written in the Bible.

FL

It is not that simple. There are many factors affecting it. But it will not be as diverse, genetically, as humans are on the planet. The point is simply not to reproduce but to be as diverse as we see today.

P.S: If you look it up, studies of isolated populations show proof of what is being said here.

Also, if you happen to read "The Ancestors Tale" by Dawkins, he lists studies and experiments on populations to genetically retrace humans. Also two initial, very informative chapters of "The selfish Gene" goes into this in details.

Silvertusk wrote:

neo-x wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:OK...neo, send me your address. You need a couple of cockroaches too.

FL

Silvertusk wrote:

neo-x wrote:Thats true Wannalearn, one single couple can not produce the genetic diversity we see in humans. You need a population of roughly 10000 to do that. There are some good articles on that in the evolution resource thread I posted a while ago. PLease read this post for more details.

Just out of curiosity - where do that 10,000 come from - Surely they do not just pop into existence? Why can't those 10,000 come from 2?

Silvertusk.

But if I give you only two humans, even after 100,000 years you will not get from them, the same genetic diversity as we see today. Infact most likely because of incest and family intercourse, the population would be limited and not diverse at all, and fatality chances would be high, resulting in more deaths than not.

So where do the 10,000 come from?

From the ancestor hominid population. The post I linked to wannalearn somewhat addresses this. The whole population evolve, not single individuals. So a whole population evolved out of a hominid population, not just one or two individuals. That is how you get 10k population of homo sapien.