NDE

[Silvertusk]

Just read "Heaven is for real" - the story of Colton Burpo and found it quite a touching book. Also started looking at the story of the prodigy painter Akaine Kramarik. Anyone heard of those two? If you have what do you think of their stories?

[RickD]

Just read "Heaven is for real" - the story of Colton Burpo and found it quite a touching book. Also started looking at the story of the prodigy painter Akaine Kramarik. Anyone heard of those two? If you have what do you think of their stories?

Silver,
Here's a thread from a while back:
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... rpo#p96999

[Silvertusk]

Thanks Rick.

I read that. Just wondering if anyone else had read the story. It is quite good - and mostly scriptural, except the part about us having wings (although the Bible doesn't say that we don't have and could just be a childs interpretation of something.

[Philip]

Seems like I remember Colton saying he saw the nail impressions in Jesus hands - which wouldn't appear to be historically accurate. Tests have strongly suggested that the hands couldn't hold up the weight. However, there is no Greek word for “wrists” in the New Testament. Perhaps there was an angled nailing? Or what if the hands were nailed and the wrists bound to the cross? Interestingly, The Shroud of Turin shows the crucified victim (Jesus? I think it is very probable) to have nail wounds in the wrist.

I find Don Draper's (a Christian pastor) story very compelling. (http://www.amazon.com/90-Minutes-Heaven ... 0800759494) It tells of him visiting heaven during via a horrific car wreck after which he had no pulse for 90 minutes. Especially the miraculous circumstances of how he was found to still be alive (by a pastor who had felt compelled to pray for him - was just passing by the wreck and had been told the victim was dead). The book is far more about the aftermath than the visit to heaven. It talks much about how his experienced has been used of God for others. But Don didn't enter Heaven's gates, as I recall - He came back to earthly life before that. But his description of what he saw is pretty riveting. And his life was a living physical hell for many years afterward.

[Silvertusk]

A question I would ask - is why would God allow NDE's. Listening to the story of Akaine, she is obviously very talented and I am sure she believes what she is saying, but why would this girl be given all these visions for her paintings - not all can 't be related to scripture (however I am very impressed with her image of Christ in the painting "Prince of Peace")

Colton's story seems more feasible - but again why would God allow people to have NDE in the first place if they are going to be submitted to so much criticism? What purpose do they serve?

BW can probably answer this question.

Another question I would ask - if God knows that a person would favorably receive the Gospel, why aren't they given visions of heaven?

Any thoughts?

Silvertusk.

[neo-x]

B.W, since you have this experience, I would be like to know your thoughts about what you think of Islamic or Hindu NDE's. What is really going on in your opinion when they see their idols or saints instead of Jesus and christian figures?

I have always wondered about that and honestly that just makes me question NDE's altogether but its something I have no experience of so I am still kind of looking into it.

[PaulSacramento]

IMO, I don't think that NDE are totally controlled by God.
In that I mean this:
We still have free will AND we still experience things via our own cultural perceptions and understandings.
An example would be seeing Jesus with nails in His Hands instead of the wrists (If He was nailed via the wrists) or John of Patmos seeing certain imagery that he could only describe VIA is Hebrew-hellenistic "filters".

[Silvertusk]

IMO, I don't think that NDE are totally controlled by God.
In that I mean this:
We still have free will AND we still experience things via our own cultural perceptions and understandings.
An example would be seeing Jesus with nails in His Hands instead of the wrists (If He was nailed via the wrists) or John of Patmos seeing certain imagery that he could only describe VIA is Hebrew-hellenistic "filters".

That is an interesting idea and food for thought - thanks Paul.

[B. W.]

B.W, since you have this experience, I would be like to know your thoughts about what you think of Islamic or Hindu NDE's. What is really going on in your opinion when they see their idols or saints instead of Jesus and christian figures?

I have always wondered about that and honestly that just makes me question NDE's altogether but its something I have no experience of so I am still kind of looking into it.

Neo, I am gearing up for the next donation drive to deliver coats, diapers, toothpaste/brushes, dental floss, etc and etc to Reservations in South and North Dakota, in the early stages of this so I'll be a bit busy for the next few days. How did your donations go for your country? I need some too!

Regarding NDE of Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, non- Christian NDE's, I gave a clue in the book but did not come outright and explain it. Depending upon the person, recall the Lord gives recompense in just measure so the 'what you sow is what you will reap' is true. Jesus in Matthew 11:21-25 expresses the principle of just recompense. So folks will enter eternity either into a quick uncovering recompense and others in less degree. In other words, some will experience more torment and others less torment.

Do not let that fool you. The purpose of hell is God's just wrath uncovering what a person really ‘is’ on the inside, exposing them for who and what they are really like. No amount of camouflage of goodness a person thinks they have done can spare them from the real them that lurks on the inside. You ask folks, will you enter heaven – people answer – yes – I am a good person. Then ask them, using the Ten Commandments if they ever lied, looked at another with lust in the heart – their answer changes.

Next, ask them if they ever put anyone on mental trial, slander, turned their back on a person, or betrayed another, what relationships did they destroy, then ask if is that good. Responses vary but the real them, is made known. Now image all the thoughts, intents, plans, schemes, actions of the heart being uncovered – all true motives and actions uncovered – and you get an idea about what God’s wrath uncovers as it exposed the reason for the wrath (John 3:36) and why God does not desires any to be brought to ruin in hell and sent his Love, Jesus Christ, to spare us of that end. Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life… Turn to him.

Therefore, what I wrote in the book simply expresses how I experienced seeing well intentioned people entering hell and being engaged with deception. This deception took the form of their world view. Some encountered one or several Hindu gods welcoming them and telling them things. Others saw what looked to me like Buddha or other religious figures. Or others, like Dear Pudding, a non Christian woman, thinking she arrived in paradise. These folks soon discovered that those they met were not who they thought they were but rather demonic creatures and awaked into an awful place where there inward nature was – exposed - justly.

There was a brief space of era after entry based upon what one sows they reap and just recompense that mets out the degree of heat used to uncover what is truly in the heart. I say ‘heat’, as there is no other word to use that can adequately describe the method. Take the word ‘heat’ as an euphemism. Therefore, if an Islamist, Buddhist, Hindu, non- Christian, enters this place and are resuscitated back to life too soon, their experience will be tainted. The exception is little kids, but their future interpretation may become skewed due to what belief system as adults they drift into.

Now there are those Hindus who report hell and are frightened of it after being resuscitated back to life but culture and prevailing worldly norms of good person camouflage prevents them from sharing on this in any great degree. Remember that medical advances of these modern times can and do bring people back from the dead. The number of these NDE experiences worldwide increase, but remember their duration of time in the beyond is a key factor compounded with the level, or just degree of recompense Jesus spoke about in Matt 11:21-25.

If but they remained a bit longer, they would have spoke another kind of NDE. So it depends of the duration. Some folks report floating and feeling great love, or living in a life review moment, or just a tunnel, feeling great love and then they are brought back to mortal life. So they collectively report an all is well, about dying and the afterlife. Others, as mentioned enter into their chambers (cell – Proverbs 7:27) seeing religious figures or persons but due to being resuscitated, the experience is interrupted so they never realize the extent of deception and report all is well and bliss. The great love they feel, well, is actually judging them as it exposes how they personally game love for their own advantages, but are returned to life too soon to realize the judgement of love...

Their collective messages remind me of a sales job. If it sounds too good to be true than you can rest assured that it is.

Jesus did not speak this way about eternity and he brought to light eternity and fulfilled the truth of Eccl 3:22. There is recompense, it is just, and it brings to light the hidden things. Note Luke 16:19-31, Matt 10:28, Matt 23:15, Matt 5:22-30 for starters on what Jesus said about the subject. God’s ways are not our own and why folks make it their way, well is but one example of slander hidden in the heart against God’s just recompense.
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[Philip]

I wanted to re-post an earlier post of mine on near death experiences:

Below are excellent links to overviews of the available Near Death Experiences (NDEs) secular academic research, summation of case histories, cautions of interpretation of cases, the New Age/demonic potentials, the authentic experiences God may well have provided some, and Christian perspectives (academic and theological). These are excellent overviews on this subject and are well worth reading.

Hank Hanegraaff's organization, Christian Research Institute, has some fascinating things to say about near death experiences and research related to them:

Near Death Experience Part One:

http://www.equip.org/articles/the-near- ... -part-one/

Near Death Experience Part Two:

http://www.equip.org/articles/the-near- ... -part-two/

Related Articles:

http://www.equip.org/category/near-death-experience/

[neo-x]

B.W, since you have this experience, I would be like to know your thoughts about what you think of Islamic or Hindu NDE's. What is really going on in your opinion when they see their idols or saints instead of Jesus and christian figures?

I have always wondered about that and honestly that just makes me question NDE's altogether but its something I have no experience of so I am still kind of looking into it.

Neo, I am gearing up for the next donation drive to deliver coats, diapers, toothpaste/brushes, dental floss, etc and etc to Reservations in South and North Dakota, in the early stages of this so I'll be a bit busy for the next few days. How did your donations go for your country? I need some too!

Regarding NDE of Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, non- Christian NDE's, I gave a clue in the book but did not come outright and explain it. Depending upon the person, recall the Lord gives recompense in just measure so the 'what you sow is what you will reap' is true. Jesus in Matthew 11:21-25 expresses the principle of just recompense. So folks will enter eternity either into a quick uncovering recompense and others in less degree. In other words, some will experience more torment and others less torment.

Do not let that fool you. The purpose of hell is God's just wrath uncovering what a person really ‘is’ on the inside, exposing them for who and what they are really like. No amount of camouflage of goodness a person thinks they have done can spare them from the real them that lurks on the inside. You ask folks, will you enter heaven – people answer – yes – I am a good person. Then ask them, using the Ten Commandments if they ever lied, looked at another with lust in the heart – their answer changes.

Next, ask them if they ever put anyone on mental trial, slander, turned their back on a person, or betrayed another, what relationships did they destroy, then ask if is that good. Responses vary but the real them, is made known. Now image all the thoughts, intents, plans, schemes, actions of the heart being uncovered – all true motives and actions uncovered – and you get an idea about what God’s wrath uncovers as it exposed the reason for the wrath (John 3:36) and why God does not desires any to be brought to ruin in hell and sent his Love, Jesus Christ, to spare us of that end. Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life… Turn to him.

Therefore, what I wrote in the book simply expresses how I experienced seeing well intentioned people entering hell and being engaged with deception. This deception took the form of their world view. Some encountered one or several Hindu gods welcoming them and telling them things. Others saw what looked to me like Buddha or other religious figures. Or others, like Dear Pudding, a non Christian woman, thinking she arrived in paradise. These folks soon discovered that those they met were not who they thought they were but rather demonic creatures and awaked into an awful place where there inward nature was – exposed - justly.

There was a brief space of era after entry based upon what one sows they reap and just recompense that mets out the degree of heat used to uncover what is truly in the heart. I say ‘heat’, as there is no other word to use that can adequately describe the method. Take the word ‘heat’ as an euphemism. Therefore, if an Islamist, Buddhist, Hindu, non- Christian, enters this place and are resuscitated back to life too soon, their experience will be tainted. The exception is little kids, but their future interpretation may become skewed due to what belief system as adults they drift into.

Now there are those Hindus who report hell and are frightened of it after being resuscitated back to life but culture and prevailing worldly norms of good person camouflage prevents them from sharing on this in any great degree. Remember that medical advances of these modern times can and do bring people back from the dead. The number of these NDE experiences worldwide increase, but remember their duration of time in the beyond is a key factor compounded with the level, or just degree of recompense Jesus spoke about in Matt 11:21-25.

If but they remained a bit longer, they would have spoke another kind of NDE. So it depends of the duration. Some folks report floating and feeling great love, or living in a life review moment, or just a tunnel, feeling great love and then they are brought back to mortal life. So they collectively report an all is well, about dying and the afterlife. Others, as mentioned enter into their chambers (cell – Proverbs 7:27) seeing religious figures or persons but due to being resuscitated, the experience is interrupted so they never realize the extent of deception and report all is well and bliss. The great love they feel, well, is actually judging them as it exposes how they personally game love for their own advantages, but are returned to life too soon to realize the judgement of love...

Their collective messages remind me of a sales job. If it sounds too good to be true than you can rest assured that it is.

Jesus did not speak this way about eternity and he brought to light eternity and fulfilled the truth of Eccl 3:22. There is recompense, it is just, and it brings to light the hidden things. Note Luke 16:19-31, Matt 10:28, Matt 23:15, Matt 5:22-30 for starters on what Jesus said about the subject. God’s ways are not our own and why folks make it their way, well is but one example of slander hidden in the heart against God’s just recompense.
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Hey B.W. Thanks for your reply, intresting food for thought, I will think about it.

The donations didn't go well, but we managed to secure about half, so we did the best we could do with it. I am trying to find people who could perhaps donate on a monthly basis, even small donations help. I hope you get yours. I will pray for your work, which is truly noble imo.

[B. W.]

Hey B.W. Thanks for your reply, intresting food for thought, I will think about it.

The donations didn't go well, but we managed to secure about half, so we did the best we could do with it. I am trying to find people who could perhaps donate on a monthly basis, even small donations help. I hope you get yours. I will pray for your work, which is truly noble imo.

Thanks Neo, we will keep each other in prayers then!

The need is so great, like an ocean. All I learned to do is help those where He sends me and be faithful in the small things. God Bless!!
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