Evidence for God from Science

Hello folks.

I'm having a conversation with a Muslim who thinks the Servant in Isaiah 42 is Muhammad.

This conversation has been going on for a few weeks.

I have tried to convince him that the Servant is not Muhammad and tried everything I could think of to explain the text, but it is not working.

It seems he thinks it is Muhammad, based on the following text:

Isaiah 42:

42:11 Let the desert and its cities shout out,
the towns where the nomads of Kedar live!
Let the residents of Sela shout joyfully;
let them shout loudly from the mountaintops.
42:12 Let them give the Lord the honor he deserves; 25
let them praise his deeds in the coastlands.

Kedar is Ishmael's son and by extension means Muhammad.

The following is the Muslim's proof that it is Muhammad:

Isaiah 42 confirms the arrival of a certain servant of God who :

a) Was called the "light of the Gentiles"...
No Israelite prophet fits this. Not even Jesus, who said that he came only the lost sheep of Israel. This chapter is speaking about a servant of God who dealt with gentiles, who were to walk in ways they had not known before,(more on this later) which the former idolatrous Arabs most definitely were.


b) Influenced the people of Kedar, Sela and the wilderness...
Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices; let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice. Let the people of Sela sing for joy; let them shout from the mountaintops. Let them give glory to the Lord
Kedar = son of Ishmael, ancestor of the Arabs
Sela = Mountain in Medina where Mohammad fought a battle (wiki)
Wilderness = The harsh regions where the Arabs lived
This is a crystal-clear reference to the geographical area where Mohammad operated. No Israelite prophet had anything to do with these regions, at least not to the extent of Mohammad.


c) Worked single-mindedly towards completing his mission...
he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth.
Mohammad indeed campaigned against great odds. He endured insults and abuses and was called a madman by those who opposed his call to Monotheism. He could have easily given up at any point. But instead of faltering or becoming discouraged, he succeeded in ending idolatry and established the worship of the One true God, declaring "None has the right to be worshiped but Allah". The law that he established over the Arabs, also served as a judicial system.


d) Was instrumental in fighting Gods war...
The Lord will march out like a champion, like a warrior he will stir up his zeal; with a shout he will raise the battle cry and will triumph over his enemies.
Obviously, God isn't going to personally march out or raise a battle cry. Mohammad was Gods instrument of war. His victories were victories of God, not his own.


e) Was instrumental in shaming the idolaters...
But those who trust in idols, who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’ will be turned back in utter shame.
Mohammad indeed shamed the idolaters when he won and destroyed their idols and established Islam. They, being Mohammads mortal enemies, would have felt even more ashamed when Mohammad forgave them after his final victory over them. Mohammads victory over the idolaters was the fulfillment of this prophecy. It is what God meant when He said “I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.".


f) Was instrumental in leading the people through new ways...
I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;
I will turn the darkness into light before them
This is what happened when Mohammad established Islam. The former idolaters left their old ways behind and were indeed led by ways they had not known. The former idolaters accepted a religion that worshiped the One True God and revered the prophets and accepted Jesus as the Messiah.


Today, there are no more worshipers of graven images left in Arabia, so nobody is going to come along to "shame them". The people of Kedar and the wilderness have already rejoiced. The darkness of idolatry has already turned to the light of pure Monotheism. All these prophecies have already been fulfilled with Mohammad and so it confirms that Mohammad was a "Biblical" prophet. I have presented incontrovertible evidence not from the Koran, but from the Bible itself that shows events in Islamic history were prophesied by God. So when you deny this, you deny the prophecies in your own Bibles.

Christians had a 600 year long headstart before Mohammads arrival. They had the scriptures, the time and the armies to Christianize Arabia, like Europe. They even failed to carry out the mandate of "go and make disciples of all nations", with regard to their Arabian neighbours. And so they have no right to object or criticize Mohammads achievments in ending idolatry and establishing a religion that worshiped the God of Abraham and revered Jesus as Messiah. This is what God wanted and Gods Will was indeed carried out on earth by Mohammad, the servant of Isaiah 42. God knows best.

......

I thought maybe some of you could come up with reasons why it is not Muhammad that I haven't tried.

None of the reasons he has cited has anything to do with this text. At best, he has to convince me that Mohammed is the prophet but those other reasons, and then, I can see Isa 42 as consistent with my (now preexisting) belief. In short, he has no warrant other than his own theology for interpreting--allegorically, no less--"Kedar" as Mohammed.

The real question is who Isaiah thought the Servant was. There is no indication in this text that Isaiah saw Mohammed as that Servant. So the appropriate thing for your friend to do is gather together those texts that actually do address the identity of the Servant and see if they point to Mohammed--not, I insist, that they are consistent with the belief that Mohammed was the Servant, but that they actually point to him.

In short, he has a preexisting theology that allows him to allegorically see this passage as consistent with his beliefs. It is not at all your job to show that his loose handling of the text is inconsistent with his own theology, which is essentially the challenge he is presenting you. It is his job to show you a warrant in the text, not in his own theology, for the identification of the Servant. It's fairly easy to provide that warrant for identifying the Servant as Jesus, of course. That it cannot be done for Mohammed, apart from a preexisting commitment to Islamic theology, is rather telling in and of itself.

Jac3510 wrote:None of the reasons he has cited has anything to do with this text. At best, he has to convince me that Mohammed is the prophet but those other reasons, and then, I can see Isa 42 as consistent with my (now preexisting) belief. In short, he has no warrant other than his own theology for interpreting--allegorically, no less--"Kedar" as Mohammed.

The real question is who Isaiah thought the Servant was. There is no indication in this text that Isaiah saw Mohammed as that Servant. So the appropriate thing for your friend to do is gather together those texts that actually do address the identity of the Servant and see if they point to Mohammed--not, I insist, that they are consistent with the belief that Mohammed was the Servant, but that they actually point to him.

In short, he has a preexisting theology that allows him to allegorically see this passage as consistent with his beliefs. It is not at all your job to show that his loose handling of the text is inconsistent with his own theology, which is essentially the challenge he is presenting you. It is his job to show you a warrant in the text, not in his own theology, for the identification of the Servant. It's fairly easy to provide that warrant for identifying the Servant as Jesus, of course. That it cannot be done for Mohammed, apart from a preexisting commitment to Islamic theology, is rather telling in and of itself.

Well, you have pegged him. He is reading into the text what he wants/needs it to say. He saw Kedar and put his own spin on it. I pointed out that the Servant in Isaiah 42 is the same Servant identified in Isaiah 41.

Isaiah 41:8-10
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

8 But you, Israel, My servant,
Jacob, whom I have chosen,
descendant of Abraham, My friend—
9 I brought[a] you from the ends of the earth
and called you from its farthest corners.
I said to you: You are My servant;
I have chosen you and not rejected you.
10 Do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be afraid, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you; I will help you;
I will hold on to you with My righteous right hand.

We know that the book was not divided into Chapters in the beginning, so the text can be read as continuous. Like:

Isaiah 44:1-5
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Spiritual Blessing

44 “And now listen, Jacob My servant,
Israel whom I have chosen.
2 This is the word of the Lord
your Maker who formed you from the womb;
He[a] will help you:
Do not fear; Jacob is My servant;
I have chosen Jeshurun.
3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out My Spirit on your descendants
and My blessing on your offspring.
4 They will sprout among[c] the grass
like poplars by flowing streams.
5 This one will say, ‘I am the Lord’s’;
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, ‘The Lord’s,’
and name himself by the name of Israel.”

And further:

Isaiah 44:2
Thus saith the Lord that made thee and formed thee from the womb, who will help thee: Fear not, O Jacob, My servant, and thou, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 44:21
“Remember these, O Jacob and Israel, for thou art My servant. I have formed thee; thou art My servant. O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten by Me.

Isaiah 49:3
and said unto Me, ‘Thou art My servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.’

Isaiah 49:6
and He said: ‘It is a light thing that Thou shouldest be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved of Israel. I will also give Thee for a light to the Gentiles, that Thou mayest be My salvation unto the end of the earth.’”

Isaiah 52:13
“Behold, My Servant shall deal prudently, He shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

I did point out the the Christ Jesus, is the ultimate fulfillment of the Servant Israel/Jacob and this Servant is a Jew, not a Gentile.

Muslims want so much to believe that Muhammad was a true prophet and they look for prophecies in the Bible to prove it, but none can be found.

What makes it worse is that this particular Muslim is a former Christian.

Thanks for your thoughts, Jac.