Evidence for God from Science

Please, English is not my native language, help me to re phrase text if there is something wrong.



How were arising 3 generations in Judah's family in 22 years?

(39-17=22, ages of Joseph, when he was sold out and when he met father in Egypt)



If the daughter of Shuah were already pregnant (Gen38:1-5) up the time of saling Joseph (Gen37:27), it would 'gain' 1/2-1 year to this short term. Whether her pregnancy pushed Judah to sale out the brother?

Shuah bare Er, Shelah, (Gen38:3-5) and Onan. Probably Onan and Shelah were twins.

32 y.o. Judah took a young Tamar. ~11-12 y.o. By (Apocr.Apocal) "Ir was ... confused before Tamar ..." and did not want or could not impregnate her and was killed because of that, (Vulgate) Gen38:7 "... nequam... et ab eo occisus est. (... disobedient... and was killed.)" Younger Onan by (Apocr.Apocal) living with her a year without wishing to have children from her and when was forced, spilled his seed on the ground, and also was killed because of thet. May be Er and Onan were just gays?

(Apocr.Apocal) "... Tamar became a widow, and two years have passed ...", these words reduced the general term from 22 to 20 years! Then Pharez must make children at 9 y.o. !

Shelah was 'grown' (Gen38:14) ~11-12 y.o. The elderly wife of Judah - the daughter of Shuah 'died', and During the same time Tamar became pregnant from Judah.

Gen38:26 "And Judah acknowledged them, and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son. And he knew her again no more. ",
But in (Vulgate) Gen38:26 "qui agnitis muneribus ait iustior me est quia non tradidi eam Sela filio meo attamen ultra non cognovit illam", (LXX) Gen38:26 "επεγνω δε ιουδας και ειπεν δεδικαιωται θαμαρ η εγω ου εινεκεν ουκ εδωκα αυτην σηλωμ τω υιω μου και ου προσεθετο ετι του γνωναι αυτην ", (OstRih) Gen38:26 "И позна іоуда, и рече, очи'стися Фама'ръ паче мене`, і иже а'зъ не дах ея` сило'му сн~у своему, и не приложи' посе'мъ прилепя'тися ея`",

there is not "," before "and", like Judah have took her for himself.

However in other bibles direct speech of Judah are broken by a comma. It turning out that Judah doing not sex with Tamar neither to nor after conception, i.e. haven't took her for himself.

Tamar bare twins (Gen38:27), Pharez and Zara. 10-11 y.o. Pharez begat twins, Hezron and Hamul. Twins are rare 1/80 and often happened in closely related marriages. Whether was Tamar a relative to Judah?

How were arising 3 generations in Judah's family in 22 years?

According to [rl=http://www.studylight.org/com/kdo/view.cgi?bk=0&ch=38]Keil and Delitzsch[/url]:

• Moreover, the 23 years which intervened between the taking of Joseph into Egypt and the migration of Jacob thither, furnish space enough for all the events recorded in this chapter. If we suppose that Judah, who was 20 years old when Joseph was sold, went to Adullam soon afterwards and married there, is three sons might have been born four or five years after Joseph's captivity. And if his eldest son was born about a year and a half after the sale of Joseph, and he married him to Thamar when he was 15 years old, and gave her to his second son a year after that, Onan's death would occur at least five years before Jacob's removal to Egypt; time enough, therefore, both for the generation and birth of the twin-sons of Judah by Thamar, and for Judah's two journeys into Egypt with his brethren to buy corn

And again:

• If we look more closely into the list itself, the first thing which strikes us is that Pharez, one of the twin-sons of Judah, who were not born till after the sale of Joseph, should already have had two sons. Supposing that Judah's marriage to the daughter of Shuah the Canaanite occurred, notwithstanding the reasons advanced to the contrary in Gen 38, before the sale of Joseph, and shortly after the return of Jacob to Canaan, during the time of his sojourn at Shechem (Genesis 33:18), it cannot have taken place more than five, or at the most six, years before Joseph was sold; for Judah was only three years older than Joseph, and was not more than 20 years old, therefore, at the time of his sale. But even then there would not be more than 28 years between Judah's marriage and Jacob's removal to Egypt; so that Pharez would only be about 11 years old, since he could not have been born till about 17 years after Judah's marriage, and at that age he could not have had two sons. Judah, again, could not have taken four sons with him into Egypt, since he had at the most only two sons a year before their removal (Genesis 42:37); unless indeed we adopt the extremely improbable hypothesis, that two other sons were born within the space of 11 or 12 months, either as twins, or one after the other. Still less could Benjamin, who was only 23 or 24 years old at the time (vid., pp. 200f. and 204f.), have had 10 sons already, or, as Numbers 26:38-40 shows, eight sons and two grandsons. From all this it necessarily follows, that in the list before us grandsons and great-grandsons of Jacob are named who were born afterwards in Egypt, and who, therefore, according to a view which we frequently meet with in the Old Testament, though strange to our modes of thought, came into Egypt in lumbis patrum.

I haven't studied all the numbers they provide to see how or if they fit together. I also know that some take the account in Gen. 38 to have preceded the sale of Joseph (which is grammatically possible given Gen. 38:1), and I am aware of some disagreement as to the age of Benjamin when he first went to Egypt. Yet I tend to find K&D relatively trustworthy on these matters. And to be honest, I am having some trouble following your numbers and dates, so I'll just leave these quotes with you here and hope you find them helpful.

To summarize, though, it seems to me that unless we follow Augustine and put Gen. 38 before Gen. 37 (chronologically), then it was not possible for all three generations to have been living when the whole family went to Egypt. As an aside, the question of Benjamin's 10 sons presents a similar problem. If we suppose with them that he was 23 or 24, then if all 10 sons were alive and brought to Egypt with their father, it would seem to demand Benjamin married several women very early on. If he married as young as 15, he would have had at most 9 years to have all 10 children, something that is very hard to imagine if all by the same woman. So either K&D are right and some of the children are here named lumbis patrum or the boy married early and had two or three wives.

Anyway, so that seems to me to be where you'll have to go with this . . . on K&D's numbers, put Gen. 38 before 37 or else argue that some of the names in 46 were counted lumbis patrum (or you could argue that the text was wrong, of course).