Evidence for God from Science

What is a thoughtful, apologetic response to people, when they say:

"It must be meant to be!"

or:

"Everything happens for a reason."

These are such common comments by unbelievers. I often wonder why they say such statements. It's as if they are recognizing that life isn't just a series of random experiences, but that it has a greater meaning, purpose and deliberate organization. And that, at least on some level, they also sense that there is some power that oversees, connects and guides life. But they often won't call it (Whatever it is) "God." It''s as if they DO know about God, even acknowledge Him in some mystical way or belief, but they want to keep this God, impersonal and remote.

What do you guys think? How do you respond?

I doubt many people saying such actually understand what they are saying. And I really don't think they sense that, it is only a residue of beliefs in which they have been raised. I know of athiests who believe in, telepathy, haunted houses, ghosts...but they think that ghosts are really beings from another universe which we can see telepathically.

I actually say "Everything (I would change it to "some") happens for a reason." lots of times, because I believe it does. Sometimes I need to learn a lesson, grow or just be blessed etc... etc...

I don't see the issue.

I would be more perturbed if someone said everything was meaningless and just random stuff happening.

Philip wrote:What is a thoughtful, apologetic response to people, when they say:..."Everything happens for a reason."

My answer to this is, ''Who determines the reason?'' The most common answer to this is a shrug. From the shrug, I ask, ''If you don't know who determines the reason, how can you know that everything happens for a reason?'' Keep asking questions until they either get tired of you or they suggest some sort of deity. I don't ever suggest God as the answer because I want them to come to the only logical conclusion on their own. It doesn't always work but it will mark you out as a thinking person and not a religious nut. They'll come back for more later if you're not too pushy.

Sometimes people will answer ''The Universe'' or ''Life'' to your question. From there, ask them how these things can reason out a course for their lives. Inwardly pray for guidance while they answer you.

FL

Well, it seems to me that there are two things going on. One is, EVERY thing is not as if God programmed every little detail. We have free will. I believe many things are random but that nothing we decide can go against God's will or allowing it. Do I think God typically cares whether I put on blue socks or white ones? Not really. And we sin - who chose THAT? Certainly not God. But the other thing is that people have this idea that there is some structure and force that oversees key events. But they tend to not say such a thing ("Everything happens for a reason.") with a death or large tragedy. They tend to say it with positive things. It's almost like a New Age sensibility, as they certainly don't tend to equate it with being of the Lord.

FL wrote: I don't ever suggest God as the answer because I want them to come to the only logical conclusion on their own.

FL, that's a very wise and thoughtful way to potentially make them aware of the implications of what they believe. But they'll typically slam the door on the discussion if YOU bring up God.

Philip wrote:FL, that's a very wise and thoughtful way to potentially make them aware of the implications of what they believe. But they'll typically slam the door on the discussion if YOU bring up God.

Thanks. The technique only works with people who know me superficially. (People who know I'm a Christian seem to discredit anything I have to say on the matter.)

Here is an example where I screwed up using my technique: I had been giving a coworker a ride to work every day. He was a young man living in a small apartment with his wife and their 2 year old daughter. He didn't earn a lot, didn't have a car, so I just offered him free rides. I guess he saw me as a father figure because our discussions in the car quickly turned to ''spiritual'' matters. He was a typical lost soul with blended New Age and Catholic ideas about God. At first, he blasphemed often but as our relationship grew, he did so less and less.

One day, he asked me a very strange question, ''Do you believe in ghosts?'' I should have continued using my technique of answering with a question. Instead, I put my foot in my mouth: ''No, I don't believe in ghosts.'' And to make matters worse, I went on to tell him why I didn't believe in ghosts. That was the beginning of the end of our interesting chats. By giving my opinion on this, I shut him up. (His young daughter was speaking to imaginary friends and he felt these were manifestations from the spirit world.)

It is one thing to say to a Christian such as yourself, ''I don't believe in UFOs/ghosts or think they are a manifestation of the Evil One'' . But such a blatant opinion is hurtful when discussing with the spiritually fragile. Live and learn.

So, you are right, the idea is to ''make them aware of the implications of what they believe.''

FL

FL, you are a wise old sage!

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Philip wrote:FL, that's a very wise and thoughtful way to potentially make them aware of the implications of what they believe. But they'll typically slam the door on the discussion if YOU bring up God.

Thanks. The technique only works with people who know me superficially. (People who know I'm a Christian seem to discredit anything I have to say on the matter.)

Here is an example where I screwed up using my technique: I had been giving a coworker a ride to work every day. He was a young man living in a small apartment with his wife and their 2 year old daughter. He didn't earn a lot, didn't have a car, so I just offered him free rides. I guess he saw me as a father figure because our discussions in the car quickly turned to ''spiritual'' matters. He was a typical lost soul with blended New Age and Catholic ideas about God. At first, he blasphemed often but as our relationship grew, he did so less and less.

One day, he asked me a very strange question, ''Do you believe in ghosts?'' I should have continued using my technique of answering with a question. Instead, I put my foot in my mouth: ''No, I don't believe in ghosts.'' And to make matters worse, I went on to tell him why I didn't believe in ghosts. That was the beginning of the end of our interesting chats. By giving my opinion on this, I shut him up. (His young daughter was speaking to imaginary friends and he felt these were manifestations from the spirit world.)

It is one thing to say to a Christian such as yourself, ''I don't believe in UFOs/ghosts or think they are a manifestation of the Evil One'' . But such a blatant opinion is hurtful when discussing with the spiritually fragile. Live and learn.

So, you are right, the idea is to ''make them aware of the implications of what they believe.''

FL

Hmm, it would be very strange for me to hear a Christian say he doesn't believe in ghosts. It's like saying he doesn't believe in the spirit world. It is, in essence, contradictory. Can you explain that a little FL (why you do not believe in ghosts)?

Hmm, it would be very strange for me to hear a Christian say he doesn't believe in ghosts. It's like saying he doesn't believe in the spirit world. It is, in essence, contradictory. Can you explain that a little FL (why you do not believe in ghosts)?

I think FL alluded to the idea that "ghosts," if TRULY experienced, are not what people popularly THINK they are - meaning they are actually of the demonic realm. They're certainly not lost souls wandering between dimensions.

Philip wrote:

Hmm, it would be very strange for me to hear a Christian say he doesn't believe in ghosts. It's like saying he doesn't believe in the spirit world. It is, in essence, contradictory. Can you explain that a little FL (why you do not believe in ghosts)?

I think FL alluded to the idea that "ghosts," if TRULY experienced, are not what people popularly THINK they are - meaning they are actually of the demonic realm. They're certainly not lost souls wandering between dimensions.

But then it would mean he believed in demonic ghosts, not that he didn't believe in them at all. Besides which, what would one call angels who act in the physical world other than heavenly ghosts (and therefore, not demonic)?

Besides which, what would one call angels who act in the physical world other than heavenly ghosts (and therefore, not demonic)?

They are clearly more typically in another dimension (is that where the present Heaven is?) but can also appear, as desired, in our present physical realm. But as to what I'd call them? Er, how about "angels?" Some are from the Lord and some have been banished from His presence.

Byblos wrote:Hmm, it would be very strange for me to hear a Christian say he doesn't believe in ghosts. It's like saying he doesn't believe in the spirit world. It is, in essence, contradictory. Can you explain that a little FL (why you do not believe in ghosts)?

We are really off topic now. I wanted to hear what others had to say to people who make New Ageish statements like, ''It must be meant to be!'' or ''Everything happens for a reason'' or ''I thank Life (or, the Universe) for my good fortune'' and so on. Anyway, Philip answered your question for me:

Philip wrote:[Ghosts are] certainly not lost souls wandering between dimensions.

Remember, Byblos, Philip's original query dealt with common questions & comments from the spiritually blind. How do we answer these questions from a Christian perspective?

I've already answered. It is your turn now!

FL

People aslo say: it is destiny

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Byblos wrote:Hmm, it would be very strange for me to hear a Christian say he doesn't believe in ghosts. It's like saying he doesn't believe in the spirit world. It is, in essence, contradictory. Can you explain that a little FL (why you do not believe in ghosts)?

We are really off topic now.

I was merely questioning your comment on the ghost non-belief. I've no interest in the OP.

1over137 wrote:People aslo say: it is destiny

Others say - thank your lucky stars...

Or - just a case of bad karma...

Or - "Que Sera, Sera - Whatever Will Be, Will Be"

Recently - I am hearing of star children and blackeye kids roaming the earth and Katy Perry's katy perry Alien Song - in other words - ET is controlling destiny for all. This mantra of alien ET's seems to be the latest big fad here in the USA and so many people seem readily to believe in various ET creation theories, DNA altering, and ET as the controller of Humanity, or the gods of old - but mention Jesus and they either cringe and even some dismiss Jesus as a star child with super ET injected DNA... nothing more, move on - waiting for the next star child to come a save...

How would you answer these kind of things?

You used to be able to have an intelligent conversation with rational people about spiritual matters but now - people seemed - well - dumbed down.

I'll usually share a bit on who the Nephilim or Anunnaki might have been and answer questions with questions. At least they'll be forced to use their brains. As for Ghost, I'll tell them about the Holy Ghost and the power Jesus grants to us through the use of the spiritual weapons mentioned in Eph 6:10-18. That usually grabs their attention...

I do not discount what unsaved people say regarding spiritual matters, I look, and through silent prayer that waits on the Lord, I seek how to answer them and it usually comes in the form of a question that eventually confronts them with the reality of Jesus Christ.

I'd rather prefer the intellectual topics of predestination, or there is no God to discuss with unbelievers rather than the wild Si Fi stuff spouted off today from the History 2 channel...
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