Evidence for God from Science

What do people think of him? Reading one of his books and it is pretty impressive - but I wonder if anyone here has heard of him?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-What-Jesus-D ... by+dawkins

Silvertusk wrote:What do people think of him? Reading one of his books and it is pretty impressive - but I wonder if anyone here has heard of him?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-What-Jesus-D ... by+dawkins

Bad news! He pastors a vineyard church. Among other problems, vineyard churches are associated with the Toronto blessing. He's into false signs and wonders. A huge deception in the church.

My advice...pray for discernment. And stay far away from this false teacher.

RickD wrote:...vineyard churches are associated with the Toronto blessing.

The Toronto blessing is true fruitcake stuff: fall down, twitch & foam-at-the-mouth slain-in-the-[false] spirit stuff. Beware.

FL

RickD wrote:

Silvertusk wrote:What do people think of him? Reading one of his books and it is pretty impressive - but I wonder if anyone here has heard of him?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-What-Jesus-D ... by+dawkins

Bad news! He pastors a vineyard church. Among other problems, vineyard churches are associated with the Toronto blessing. He's into false signs and wonders. A huge deception in the church.

My advice...pray for discernment. And stay far away from this false teacher.

Interesting you should say that - because that is what Robby says in his book. Pray for discernment and test the spirits.

You guys know my feelings about the charismatic stuff - but my question to you is - Does Jesus give us authority to cast our demons and command diseases to go and heal people?

Silvertusk wrote:

RickD wrote:

Silvertusk wrote:What do people think of him? Reading one of his books and it is pretty impressive - but I wonder if anyone here has heard of him?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-What-Jesus-D ... by+dawkins

Bad news! He pastors a vineyard church. Among other problems, vineyard churches are associated with the Toronto blessing. He's into false signs and wonders. A huge deception in the church.

My advice...pray for discernment. And stay far away from this false teacher.

Interesting you should say that - because that is what Robby says in his book. Pray for discernment and test the spirits.

You guys know my feelings about the charismatic stuff - but my question to you is - Does Jesus give us authority to cast our demons and command diseases to go and heal people?

Silver,

We all know the scriptures that show where the apostles were given that authority. But was that authority given to us today?

Why don't you post the scripture that Mr. Dawkins uses to back up his beliefs, and we can see if he's in proper context.

We all saw what can happen when one misinterprets scripture. The same scripture some use to say we have authority over disease, is the scripture that the snake handling pastor misinterpreted to his death.

Silvertusk wrote:Does Jesus give us authority to cast our demons and command diseases to go and heal people?

No

Jac3510 wrote:

Silvertusk wrote:Does Jesus give us authority to cast our demons and command diseases to go and heal people?

No

Could you elaborate?

RickD wrote:

Silvertusk wrote:

RickD wrote:

Silvertusk wrote:What do people think of him? Reading one of his books and it is pretty impressive - but I wonder if anyone here has heard of him?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-What-Jesus-D ... by+dawkins

Bad news! He pastors a vineyard church. Among other problems, vineyard churches are associated with the Toronto blessing. He's into false signs and wonders. A huge deception in the church.

My advice...pray for discernment. And stay far away from this false teacher.

Interesting you should say that - because that is what Robby says in his book. Pray for discernment and test the spirits.

You guys know my feelings about the charismatic stuff - but my question to you is - Does Jesus give us authority to cast our demons and command diseases to go and heal people?

Silver,

We all know the scriptures that show where the apostles were given that authority. But was that authority given to us today?

Why don't you post the scripture that Mr. Dawkins uses to back up his beliefs, and we can see if he's in proper context.

We all saw what can happen when one misinterprets scripture. The same scripture some use to say we have authority over disease, is the scripture that the snake handling pastor misinterpreted to his death.

Then can you explain what is happening to these people when they are miraculously cured in front of people eyes - I am talking about limbs growing, heart defects disappearing, Lungs healing - all instantly to name a few that is mentioned in this book.

Would you say that he is making it all up? Would you attribute this to demonic healing?

To be honest I need someone else to read this book as I am not very good at relating all that it says.

Silvertusk wrote:
Then can you explain what is happening to these people when they are miraculously cured in front of people eyes - I am talking about limbs growing, heart defects disappearing, Lungs healing - all instantly to name a few that is mentioned in this book.

Would you say that he is making it all up? Would you attribute this to demonic healing?

To be honest I need someone else to read this book as I am not very good at relating all that it says.

I can't say specifically in this case, because I don't know Mr. Dawkins well enough. But I haven't heard of anyone having limbs grow back. Surely something that miraculous would've made the news.

I think a lot of these "faith healers" use emotionalism to get people sucked in. It's basically a form of hypnotism.

If you want to see something that'll open your eyes to these faith healers, go on YouTube and search "kundalini spirit". Some, not all are summoning a false Holy Spirit.


This thread may be of interest to you. DannyM was is a similar situation as you. Read how he completely did a 180 from the beginning of the thread, after he prayed for discernment. It was truly amazing seeing God convict danny of the truth in the time span of that thread. http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... it=Healing

RickD wrote:

Silvertusk wrote:
Then can you explain what is happening to these people when they are miraculously cured in front of people eyes - I am talking about limbs growing, heart defects disappearing, Lungs healing - all instantly to name a few that is mentioned in this book.

Would you say that he is making it all up? Would you attribute this to demonic healing?

To be honest I need someone else to read this book as I am not very good at relating all that it says.

I can't say specifically in this case, because I don't know Mr. Dawkins well enough. But I haven't heard of anyone having limbs grow back. Surely something that miraculous would've made the news.

I think a lot of these "faith healers" use emotionalism to get people sucked in. It's basically a form of hypnotism.

If you want to see something that'll open your eyes to these faith healers, go on YouTube and search "kundalini spirit". Some, not all are summoning a false Holy Spirit.


This thread may be of interest to you. DannyM was is a similar situation as you. Read how he completely did a 180 from the beginning of the thread, after he prayed for discernment. It was truly amazing seeing God convict danny of the truth in the time span of that thread. http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... it=Healing

I have read that thread several time and I am not in the same situation

I have never experienced anything "miraculous" myself.

I just want answers. You say that the gifts and authority that was given to the apostles is not with us today? Why do you say this? If they are - then why can't we, with authority command limbs to grow back or demons to depart?

What is the point of us having the power of the Living God residing in us when we actually can do bugger all? These are the questions I want answers to.

If all it is is to just make us nice people - well surely we don't need God to do that?

If the power given to the apostles stopped when they died - then why didn't Jesus come back then? What is he waiting for if we can no longer convince people of the Living Christ with the power of his "authority" residing in us?

Appreciate you trying to answer Rick - but I need more.

Silvertusk wrote:
I have read that thread several time and I am not in the same situation.

It's the same in that both you and Danny were looking to experience the HS in your lives. You both wanted something more.

I have never experienced anything "miraculous" myself.

If you read that thread through, you'll see what danny thought was a miraculous presence of the HS, was mostly just emotionalism.

I just want answers. You say that the gifts and authority that was given to the apostles is not with us today? Why do you say this? If they are - then why can't we, with authority command limbs to grow back or demons to depart?

I'm specifically talking about the authority you mentioned. I believe that authority was given to specific people at a specific time, for a specific purpose. We can't command limbs to grow back because that authority hasn't been given to us. It's not any more complicated than that.

What is the point of us having the power of the Living God residing in us when we actually can do bugger all? These are the questions I want answers to.

The Holy Spirit is not in us so we can do magic tricks.

If the power given to the apostles stopped when they died - then why didn't Jesus come back then? What is he waiting for if we can no longer convince people of the Living Christ with the power of his "authority" residing in us?

No longer convince people with the power of God? I trusted Christ for salvation because of the power of the Holy Spirit in my Mom. The Holy Spirit changed my mom, and I saw that change. It was nothing short of a miracle, the way God worked in her life.

And as I said before, if you've trusted Christ for salvation, you have the Holy Spirit in you. You need to continue trusting in Him, and you will grow as a believer. Listen to God speaking to you, by making time every day to be alone with God. Go to a quiet place and read God's word, and pray. You don't need to spend hours reading the bible, unless you want to. Start out with 15 minutes every day. Make it a priority. Anyone can spare 15 minutes. God will speak to you through his word.

It's really that simple. Continue trusting in Christ, ask God to speak to you through the bible, and bring all your concerns to Him in prayer. I guarantee you if you follow those 3 simple things, trust Christ, read the bible, and pray, you WILL experience the Holy Spirit moving in your life.

Silvertusk wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:

Silvertusk wrote:Does Jesus give us authority to cast our demons and command diseases to go and heal people?

No

Could you elaborate?

There are no passages that say that we are give that authority. On the flip side, James says that the sick should to the elders and pray that they might be healed. If Christians had the authority to heal, that would be a silly thing to require.

The burden is on those who claim that we do have that authority. My argument that we do not is simple:

1. We should not affirm something as a spiritual truth without biblical warrant;
2. There's no biblical warrant for the claim that we have authority to heal and/or cast out demons;
3. Therefore we should not affirm that we have such authority.

Since the Bible doesn't affirm that we have it, we should deny that we do, since there are only two possibilities: we have or or we don't. If we had it, the Bible would say so. It doesn't, so we have to conclude that we don't have that authority.

Silvertusk wrote:What do people think of him? Reading one of his books and it is pretty impressive - but I wonder if anyone here has heard of him?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-What-Jesus-D ... by+dawkins

First things first - all I know of him is that he is part of the power evangelism team. I do not know enough about him to pass judgment that what he teaches is emotionalism. I do find it odd how grown men and women can whoop and howler, cheering their favorite sports team, yet, do that in Church concerning Jesus - well emotionalism! it must stop!

I can't verify anything he has done at this time regarding healings etc so I would not say anything other than what Jesus said about someone else long ago in the same context: he who is for us is not against us...

Often, there are times and encounters with the Lord that move my emotions and times he has me say and do things outside the norm. The results all have been good and produce good fruit in those God intended for. At this time, I would not say anything wrong about this person and there needs a bit more emotion in Churches today as so many seem like morgues

I'll look into his teaching a bit more but at this time I don't know enough what he teaches...
-
-
-

Jac3510 wrote:

Silvertusk wrote:Does Jesus give us authority to cast our demons and command diseases to go and heal people?

No

Can you elaborate and explain how the unchanging God whose gifts and callings are irrevocable change his mind and remove his gifts and callings and that 1 Cor 12 is no longer valid today or needed and why?

Now the link below is from A. B. SIMPSON, Pastor Gospel Tabernacle, New York, founder of the Christian Missionary Alliance writing on the Lord who heals today... which you mentioned being a member of...

http://www.cmalliance.org/resources/arc ... ealing.pdf

Was he wrong?

Now look at the quotes from the Alliance own website:

The Fourfold Gospel is the Christological summary on which the core values of The Christian and Missionary Alliance is based. Through dramatic spiritual encounters that changed the course of his life, Simpson came to firmly believe that Christ was not only his Savior, but also his Sanctifier and Healer.

Alliance people share this rich legacy, as well as our founder’s passion to complete the Great Commission—to take the light of Christ to places where there is little access to the truth—and bring back our Coming King.

Core Value 6:

WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT’S EMPOWERMENT, WE CAN ACCOMPLISH NOTHING.

The Apostle Paul said, My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power (1 Corinthians 2:4-€“5). This is the fiber of our being as believers and the sixth of our Alliance core values.

From the Alliance own website at:

https://www.cmalliance.org/about/belief ... old-gospel

One last interesting link:

http://hopefaithprayer.com/word-of-fait ... ul-l-king/

So in light of this, even though I do not honestly know Robby Dawkins stance on healings, etc, if they are sound biblically or not, I would not brand him so soon a false teacher. I am sure Mr Simpson who founded the Alliance if alive today would be classed as a Robby too.

Come to the Reservations with me and see the darkness and processions and oppression - you better know Jesus and the authority He grants you or else you are mere ineffective toast. In fact even in any town city, rural area in the USA and the world, it is wise to know the authority Jesus grants to fulfill the great commission. As Simpson expounded, the gifts from the Holy Spirit are for today and not lost to some bygone era because that which is perfect has not come yet, till Revelation 21:1-7 occurs.

Are there abuses of the gifts - yes and do folks make a mockery of these in staged shows - yes. If the devil does not want a Christian to know that he or she has power and authority to defeat the works of darkness in them and around them, what better way to foil this in use of human intellect to focus only on the abuses and false works?
-
-
-

The early church did not have the authority granted to the Apostles, and the C&MA doesn't say they did. The C&MA teaches, explicitly I would add, that Christ as Healer means that He heals and that all such authority resides in Him. We explicitly repudiate the faith-healing movement. We pray for God to heal, believing that He still does. And returning to ST's question, it was about authority. Does Christ give us authority to do such works? The answer is obviously no. The Apostles had that authority in virtue of their office. We, not holding the office, do not possess its authority.