Evidence for God from Science

Cessationism is another form of bad teaching that came about as a response to the abuses seen over the gifts of the Holy Spirit so much so that it is taught that the Gifts and callings of God ceased after the original apostles died. This idea is based upon 1 Co 13:10 and taken that the perfect has already come. However, look around, the perfect that this text speaks about has not come as it is in reference to Revelation 21:6 comes about as rev 21:1-6 describes when and how the perfect comes. In the meantime, the body of Christ still needs prophesy, languages, knowledge due to the limited scope in which these deal with the changing affairs of life, 1 Co 13:8-9, because in this life the process continues till Rev 21:6 is completed.

Cessationism is a hypotheses, not sound doctrine, concerning the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It came about do to the abuses seen in the Church during actual moves of God. They came hard against Jonathan Edwards and John Wesley and still do so today.With Wesley and Edwards, the Holy Spirit was honored and pointed people to Jesus Christ as his duty is described by Jesus in the New Testament. Read about how peoples affections were stirred during there meetings and ask, would such be allowed today in the church? Edward's and Wesley's legacy remained true to the gospel and glorify Christ Jesus, until future generations fell for strange fire. Even the Apostle Paul cannot be accused of starting Cults and abuses - it is the people that come after them that fall into these things.

Cessationism are folks moved by fear and loss of control and as such, shut down the moves of God. They are good kin to expose frauds and false brethren and should be commended for this. However, Cessationism drift in to the various forms preterism, and emptiness of cold doctrine. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit have not ceased and are controlled as the Holy Spirit wills, not us. The gifts and callings and promises of God are never reneged. People can move in a gifting but this does not mean such are lead by the Holy Spirit (HS) in doing so. Part of Discipleship Jesus speaks of in Matt 28:18,19,20 involves building one's faith in God and how this leads to become an instrument of God to build and be his Church on earth. The Gifts of the HS are for this purpose, to be used by the Lord, not us. However, people use the gifts God gives of their own power and will, and not God's. Due to this Cessationism has come into the church full force. The life and power of God, where is it? Shall we cast out the baby with the bath water cause the water is dirty? Or remove a clean baby and teach them to mature in Christ.

1 Co 13:1-3 speaks of the abuses of the Gifts as not being governed by God's love that produces faith and hope in God.That is what we have today. In 1 Co 13:3-7, just insert the gifts mention in 1 Co 12:7-11 beside the word love and you'll discover that the Gifts of the HS are to be governed by God's love - the HS Gift of Wisdom is patient, kind and not jealous; does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; does not seek its own, is not easily provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, etc and etc. The gift of the word of wisdom is governed by God's love, if not, it is a bunch of noise. Get the picture?

Cessationism on the other hand does often acts rude, and is unkind, and not patient, a bit arrogant ... see the difference?

Have any of you been affected by Cessationism?
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A little evidence showing cessationism is indeed biblical:
http://www.gotquestions.org/cessationism.html

1 Co 13:1 states - languages of men and angels which sets the stage for the context of languages in 1 Co 13:8 mentioned as tongues. Therefore, if cessationsim true, then how come we can still speak to each other as well as write?

Cessationist will insist that that 1 Co 13:1 concerning tongues (languages-speech) of men refers only to miraculous common language on men and women, It does not as it refers to common speech and as the context demonstrates, without LOVE governing our speech we are empty sounds. In other words, Cessationist language of men does not adhere to the principles of 1Co 13:4 not being arrogant, and 1 Co 13:5 by seeking its own will.

Therefore any anointed or powerful speech, message, sermon spoken by a cessationist is not empowered by God to change lives and merely all humanly derived since God can no longer use the speech of men and women to communicate according to the strict tenets of cessationism itself.

Therefore, why do we all still speak since speech. languages of human beings has been done away with after the last apostle died?

If knowledge and wisdom have likewise ceased, why should we seek wisdom as James 1:5 and pray Col 1:9 as a personal prayer for oneself? How can one grow and increase in the knowledge of God as the bible tells us we can since such supernatural knowledge has ceased after the 1st century AD?

Yes, I Co 13:1 is true, cessationsism is so much empty noise!

Look at some common sense on this matter. After you say, Hello to someone, that word ceases, after the knowledge bears it final fruit it ceases, but more words need to be spoken and more knowledge is needed to grow and bear more fruit. Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled with the birth of Christ and ceased, launching into the fulfillment of Isa 53:1-1, which ceased, yet, Psalms 110:1-7 has not arrived, nor has Revelation chapters 20, 21, and 22. When they do, future foretelling will cease when all is fulfilled.

However the word prophecy is not confined to only meaning the foretelling of future event, but also includes the declarations, exhortations, and warnings uttered uttered under divine influence. Therefore, any Cessationist sermon or warning or exhortations are from man's heart since all divine influences ceased after the first century. No reason to listed to their declaration that the gifts ceased either as such is not divinely inspired - how can it be?

Next, the bible boldly decalre that the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable (Romans 11:29) and Jesus is what - the same yesterday today and forever (Heb 13:8) and that God 'gave' gifts to human beings (Ephesians 4:8). Did not Jesus himself state to ask this in Luke 11:910,11, 12,13 and Matthew 7:78,9,10,11-- to ask and will not the Father grant gifts?

Does not Joel 2:28,29,30,31,32 state that such gifts will continue on till the Lord actually returns and sets up shop? Did not Peter say this in Acts 2:39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." NASB

Are not all the promises of God as 2 Co 1:20 state: yea and amen and does he not also keep his word spoken in Isa 46:10 and Isa 55:8,8,10,11,12,13?

Cessationsit, Please explain to me why God changed his mind and why he reneged on gifts, callings, promises he swore as irrevocable?

Can you not see, you have no authority to judge, warn, or rebuke because prophecy has ceased and any words you write or speak are now without the Holy Spirit's influence?

Why should anyone listen to cessationist while we watch the church grow apathetic and weak and asleep, our nation failing because the church under cessatiosim is no longer salt or light?

You see - the greatest fruit of cessationsim is a weak willed church and no different than the ones playing with the wildfire of abusing the gifts - no different - God still calls all to repent and live a repentant life. In order for Cessationsim to be true - God must violate his own oaths gifts, promises, callings, and own word for the sake of making cessationist right to cement human insolence firmly into the human heart.

Sorry, no can do what cessationsim teaches on the gifts.

Cessationism has damaged the church in equal measures as those that abuse the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Cannot cessationsit see this, they twist God's words using mucho human reasoning to have God renege on what he says he will not renege?

Their own speech and words are merely a bunch of noise as it is written in 1 Co 13:1
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I really don't have time to get into all of your post but I will just say that your argument seems to be based on your idea that God can not reneg on His gifts and promises.

I completely agree. But His promises were to specific people, at a specific time. Not to us. Just like God's promises to Israel are irrevocable. But those promises were not to us either.

As I see this issue, it's one of secondary importance that believers can disagree on. While I disagree with those who believe gifts of prophecy and healing are for us today, I have no problem if a believer wants to believe that. I don't see that belief in itself as anything to lose fellowship over. My wife and some in her family are Pentecostal, and believe those gifts are applicable to us today. I don't argue with them over this.

I really don't see what the problem is with someone who doesn't believe those gifts are applicable for today. Nobody is saying God cannot heal.

Like I said, I don't think it's anything to break fellowship over.

Well Rick, I should have used better words and not such strong ones.

Also I was not harping on you at all. I was discussing cessationsim with the hard core pretist type of cessationist, not you

The best discussion on spiritual Gifts came from a Southern Baptist teaching/study guide on the gifts. In this, they mentioned that the gifts of tongues does not only refer to unknown heavenly languages but also our own languages. A gift that helps our words be seasoned with salt and grace. Helps one teach the matters of God in sermons, lessons, writings. Now, the study guide did frown on unknown tongues but this was due more because of the abuses of these in the Church. Think of it, we have the least of the gifts, unknown tongues, touted as the most important, yet, the gifts of wisdom and knowledge are at the top of the list as the best! Well, spiritual wisdom and knowledge has not vanished away has it and we are told in the bible to seek these. Amazingly cessationsist use the gift of wisdom, faith, and knowledge today!

Next, what the bible reveals about God granting gifts and the context does not indicate these will cease until the new heavens and earth make all perfect. These are needed and 1 Co 13 reveals how they are to used, under the governance of God's love that is patient, kind, etc and etc, and glorify Christ Jesus so one's hope and faith in Jesus is firmly established.

In fact, if the gifts ceased why did Paul write in 1 Co 14:1 for folks to purse and desire these spiritual matters? Again why would Jesus say this in John 14:12, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father..." NASB

The word translated Believe is the word in Greek - PisteuOn means 'one Believing' - which is how we get the - He who Believes - translated. In fact the same form is used in John 3:15, 16 and we know that the specific folks whom Jesus referred means all who will believe on Him - not just the 12 disciples or the seventy he sent out. Therefore the words of Jesus are true for all in John 14:9,10,11,12,13,14,15 as they are in John 3:15-16. What Jesus said in John 14 verses cited line up with Joel's Prophecy, Joel 2:28-32. Please note that there is a qualification in Jesus words in John 14:9-15, and a protocol. Jesus heard what the Father said to do and He obeyed and we likewise are to hear him and obey what he says. This comes at a great cost and that cost is exemplified in John 21 when Peter came to the end of himself and learned to rely on Jesus most profoundly. Not many make it to that point.

You see, when one surrenders entirely to Christ, they also surrender to his Lordship. What I mean by this is that a person accepts the complete sovereign will of God in all things. They accept that God heals or not heals is best left to him to decide on. If God desires for one to have a unknown prayer language and another not, so be it. In other words, they will not put limits on God and their faith will not be in the limits they place on God but rather that the Lord is in control and using them as he so wills however he so wills.

An example of this is Paul going to Macedonia Act 16:9 and beginning a church there, how? By meeting one wealthy business woman, then setting a former possessed girl free from demons which caused Paul to be tossed in Jail. Soon, the Jailer of the jail and his household were added to this small church. Did Paul go and do one great healing crusade with macho signs and wonders? No, a demon possessed girl was set free and people came against the gift of God for setting this one person free. The gifts have away of turning things around despite the odds and and church began there and many came to know the Lord. Paul understood the sovereignty of God, the Lordship of Christ, and himself being a vessel to display what God wanted wanted done. The cost in this is trusting oneself totally into the sovereign care of God, doing the works Jesus did - passing this on to future generations for the Matthew 28 Great Commission to be actualized.

I'll further add to this what Paul said in 1 Co 14:1 regarding that all may prophesy.

Most folks simply regard prophesy as foretelling future eventss only. That is s not the sum of the word as it also means to exhort, edify, declare the truths and counsel of God with clarity, authority, and energy that glorifies the Lord. In Fact Jonathan Edwards did so during his famous sermon - Sinners in the hands of an Angry God. John Wesley did so too, and even Billy Graham during his meetings. There is power and a pull to Christ when one speaks in the context of prophesying as Paul mentions in 1 Co 14:1 and this gift has not ceased as the evidence for it still exists.

Now, if the devil wants to stop people from bringing glory to God what would he do?

Would he not create division within the church, implementing false gifts, enticing folks to abuse the real gifts so he has people denying their need for God's Gifts that will destroy the devils works in peoples lives? The enemy tries with the gift of languages known and unknown and for that, is the main reason cessationsit reject all God's gifts, even though, the evidence shows that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, even in the ministry of Billy Graham, Jonathan Edwards, John Wesley, A B Simpson, and a host of others even to this very day.

Think of it. We are in a spiritual war for the souls of men and women, yet we are taught that the weapons we have are not valid and done away. What is the result? - becoming more like Laodicea - maybe ???

Let's not toss out the baby with the bath water but rather learn to mature in the gifts of God as 1 Co 13:1-13 tell us. That is all I am saying...
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