More facts

[Domenic]

Many never ask: "Where did the Bible come from?"

[melanie]

Many never ask: "Where did the Bible come from?" There are many different Christian religions. All have a Bible. When asked, "Where did these books come from," most reply, "From God." They didn't just fall out of the sky? In the history of man, books are some what new...they used to be rolled up scrolls. The Book we have today was copied from scrolls. The last scrolls found are called the Dead Sea Scrolls. These are older than the scrolls used to write the book. Both the Scrolls used to write the book, and the Dead sea Scrolls match. I am a writer, and I know how the publishing industry builds, and prints books. The Bible is the word of God, but...it is man who prints these Bibles. Changes can, and have been made over the centuries.

Here is one major change: Genesis 4:1 from the Book.
“And Adam knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bare Cain, and she said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.”

Here is the same passage from the Dead Sea Scrolls:

From the dead sea scrolls Genesis 4:1
“And Adam knew his wife Eve, who was pregnant by Sammael [Satan], and she conceived and bare Cain, and he was like the heavenly beings, and not like earthly beings, and she said, I have gotten a man from the angel of the Lord.”

Hi Domenic
The serpent seed bloodline, that started with Cain in the Garden of Eden, this line of thinking is gaining momentum.
Do we have proof?
The scrolls were released in a digital library, is that right?
I would like to see that particular passage with authentic translation, do you have a link?

EDIT
When I said 'do we have proof' that kinda sounds like I am aligning myself with this thinking, I'm not. Although, I have spoken to a couple of people I respect who hold this belief and I am interested albeit with scepticism. I am wary that this may be another false doctrine to lead believers astray.

[Domenic]

Thank you for your comment. I too just follow the Bible. Here is what Jesus said about a second seed.

Matthew 13:36-43
36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;(Adam)
38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;(Satan)
39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Genesis 3:15 God is talking to Satan about, "WHAT HE DID WITH HIS SEED." The word seed in 3:15 is a Greek word, zera that was used in this Hebrew text. It means, Offspring. It also means, sperma were we get the English word sperm.

Here is a question: "Can angels mate with humans, and have offspring's?
Answer from the Bible: Genesis 6:1-6 Angels came down, and took the daughters of men, and had offspring's.

These offspring's are not 100% human. The book of Enoch which was used by the Jews, and early Christians was not made a part of the bible(?) Enoch in in the Bible three times. Enoch was the great grandfather of noah. In his book he tell of the pre-flood world, and of the coming flood.
By the time God destroyed the world with water, Noah was the only one left that was almost 100% human. The rest (those who died at the flood had much of this Satan seed. When the Jews were told to go into the promised land, God told them to kill all the people there...these were of the Satan seed. That seed is still with us on this Earth...these are the tares. Human DNA shows who each human is, but the DNA is 100% human, or is it?

How much Neanderthal DNA do you have? Lots | Fox News
http://www.foxnews.com/.../your-inner-n ... erthal-dna Cached
... according to two new studies that look at the DNA fossils hidden in the modern human ... Neanderthal DNA is plentiful and ... different techniques to ...

[PaulSacramento]

FYI:
http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2 ... restrials/

Here’s the truth about this particular web gem. I’ll unpack each point briefly.

1. Genesis 4:1 was NOT found among the textual remains of the Hebrew Bible among the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is important to realize that much of the biblical material from Qumran is partial and fragmentary. Only the book of Isaiah can be said to be virtually complete (99% of it was found at Qumran). There are portions and scraps of every other OT book except Esther. Genesis 4:1, the account of Can’s birth, is not in the Dead Sea Scroll material. The closest you get is Genesis 4:2-11, which is 4QGenb or 4Q2 (read, Qumran, Cave 4, Genesis “b” – that was the name given to the fragment – also called Qumran, Cave 4, no. 2 by other researchers). This fragment was published in volume 12 (pp. 36-37) of the Discoveries in the Judaean Desert (DJD) series (Oxford University Press – the official publisher of scrolls material). The fragment is IDENTICAL to the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible used today. Therefore, the Dead Sea scrolls don’t preserve this weird view of Cain’s lineage. Readers can check on what I’m saying through two relatively inexpensive sources:

David L. Washburn, A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (Sbl – Text-Critical Studies, 2) (Sbl – Text-Critical Studies, 2) (Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature, 2002) – this resource lists all biblical passages found among the scrolls, in the order of the Hebrew canon, so it’s easy to use.
Martin Abegg, Peter Flint, and Eugene Ulrich, The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English (Harper, 1999). You need only turn to Genesis 4 to see the first verse is missing. Marty and Peter, two of the editors, are friends of mine (we live near each other, and both have been down here to my office). They are Dead Sea scroll experts.

[Domenic]

FYI:
http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2 ... restrials/

Here’s the truth about this particular web gem. I’ll unpack each point briefly.

1. Genesis 4:1 was NOT found among the textual remains of the Hebrew Bible among the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is important to realize that much of the biblical material from Qumran is partial and fragmentary. Only the book of Isaiah can be said to be virtually complete (99% of it was found at Qumran). There are portions and scraps of every other OT book except Esther. Genesis 4:1, the account of Can’s birth, is not in the Dead Sea Scroll material. The closest you get is Genesis 4:2-11, which is 4QGenb or 4Q2 (read, Qumran, Cave 4, Genesis “b” – that was the name given to the fragment – also called Qumran, Cave 4, no. 2 by other researchers). This fragment was published in volume 12 (pp. 36-37) of the Discoveries in the Judaean Desert (DJD) series (Oxford University Press – the official publisher of scrolls material). The fragment is IDENTICAL to the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible used today. Therefore, the Dead Sea scrolls don’t preserve this weird view of Cain’s lineage. Readers can check on what I’m saying through two relatively inexpensive sources:

David L. Washburn, A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (Sbl – Text-Critical Studies, 2) (Sbl – Text-Critical Studies, 2) (Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature, 2002) – this resource lists all biblical passages found among the scrolls, in the order of the Hebrew canon, so it’s easy to use.
Martin Abegg, Peter Flint, and Eugene Ulrich, The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English (Harper, 1999). You need only turn to Genesis 4 to see the first verse is missing. Marty and Peter, two of the editors, are friends of mine (we live near each other, and both have been down here to my office). They are Dead Sea scroll experts.

What makes your two friends Dead Sea Scroll experts over all the other experts?

[PaulSacramento]

what other experts?
Did you read that link?

[Domenic]

what other experts?
Did you read that link?

There are many other experts...those who had the real scrolls in hand.

The Dead Sea Scrolls at the Gnostic Society Library
www.gnosis.org/library/dss Cached
A large collection of materials about the Dead Sea Scrolls, ... to the scrolls. Manuscripts were ... Experts in paleography find in the Scrolls material ...

[PaulSacramento]

what other experts?
Did you read that link?

There are many other experts...those who had the real scrolls in hand.

The Dead Sea Scrolls at the Gnostic Society Library
http://www.gnosis.org/library/dss Cached
A large collection of materials about the Dead Sea Scrolls, ... to the scrolls. Manuscripts were ... Experts in paleography find in the Scrolls material ...

I've seen the scrolls, have read a handful of different translations of thr scrolls, have seen the interlinear of the scrools.
Please tell me which ones have Genesis 4:1 in them.

[Domenic]

Have you seen the scrolls? Where? Is it you have only seen a photo copy? Are you trained in translating Hebrew, and Greet?
Or is your position of just defending your religion?
My interest is only to find truth...whatever the truth is. If the Satan seed is true, or untrue...I want to know.I have no interest in defending any religion...the Bible is the word of God. that is what I follow.

[PaulSacramento]

Have you seen the scrolls? Where? Is it you have only seen a photo copy? Are you trained in translating Hebrew, and Greet?
Or is your position of just defending your religion?
My interest is only to find truth...whatever the truth is. If the Satan seed is true, or untrue...I want to know.I have no interest in defending any religion...the Bible is the word of God. that is what I follow.

The only scroll available to everyone OTHER than those studying them that have them in their possession are copies of course.
If you are interested in the truth then please, show me where in the DSS fragments you find Genesis 4:1, which fragment?

[Domenic]

Have you seen the scrolls? Where? Is it you have only seen a photo copy? Are you trained in translating Hebrew, and Greet?
Or is your position of just defending your religion?
My interest is only to find truth...whatever the truth is. If the Satan seed is true, or untrue...I want to know.I have no interest in defending any religion...the Bible is the word of God. that is what I follow.

The only scroll available to everyone OTHER than those studying them that have them in their possession are copies of course.
If you are interested in the truth then please, show me where in the DSS fragments you find Genesis 4:1, which fragment?

Let me give you a truth. There is no meeting in the middle on Gods truth. What you do not believe is in your own hands.
Here is a link I suggest you read. If you do not, that is up to you. Many things in the Bible have been changed by men, or removed. You must first find out what. That is up to you...I will not enter into a debate, who is right, who is wrong. I seek only truth, and I have no time to drag other along...if you want to find out if it is true, or not, you have to spend time searching out the subject yourself.

TWO SEEDLINE TAUGHT IN DEAD SEA SCROLLS, #1
emahiser.christogenea.org/Gen315%20PDFs/Two%20Seedline...
IN DEAD SEA SCROLLS, #1 ... Please Feel Free To Copy, ... Hebrew scholars have been aware for years that there is a problem with Genesis 4:1.

[PaulSacramento]

Have you seen the scrolls? Where? Is it you have only seen a photo copy? Are you trained in translating Hebrew, and Greet?
Or is your position of just defending your religion?
My interest is only to find truth...whatever the truth is. If the Satan seed is true, or untrue...I want to know.I have no interest in defending any religion...the Bible is the word of God. that is what I follow.

The only scroll available to everyone OTHER than those studying them that have them in their possession are copies of course.
If you are interested in the truth then please, show me where in the DSS fragments you find Genesis 4:1, which fragment?

Let me give you a truth. There is no meeting in the middle on Gods truth. What you do not believe is in your own hands.
Here is a link I suggest you read. If you do not, that is up to you. Many things in the Bible have been changed by men, or removed. You must first find out what. That is up to you...I will not enter into a debate, who is right, who is wrong. I seek only truth, and I have no time to drag other along...if you want to find out if it is true, or not, you have to spend time searching out the subject yourself.

TWO SEEDLINE TAUGHT IN DEAD SEA SCROLLS, #1
emahiser.christogenea.org/Gen315%20PDFs/Two%20Seedline...
IN DEAD SEA SCROLLS, #1 ... Please Feel Free To Copy, ... Hebrew scholars have been aware for years that there is a problem with Genesis 4:1.

That passage, amongst others, we debated in my 3rd year in my Masters in Theological studies.
The truth is that, yes that passage is under some debate BUT not for the reasons you are stating, but because there are variant manuscripts and possible interpretations, such as:
http://biblehub.com/genesis/4-1.htm

We have textual variations between the Septuagaint and the Masorectic text for example in regards to Lord or "angel of the Lord".

None of these = what you are stating in this thread.

[Domenic]

Have you seen the scrolls? Where? Is it you have only seen a photo copy? Are you trained in translating Hebrew, and Greet?
Or is your position of just defending your religion?
My interest is only to find truth...whatever the truth is. If the Satan seed is true, or untrue...I want to know.I have no interest in defending any religion...the Bible is the word of God. that is what I follow.

The only scroll available to everyone OTHER than those studying them that have them in their possession are copies of course.
If you are interested in the truth then please, show me where in the DSS fragments you find Genesis 4:1, which fragment?

Let me give you a truth. There is no meeting in the middle on Gods truth. What you do not believe is in your own hands.
Here is a link I suggest you read. If you do not, that is up to you. Many things in the Bible have been changed by men, or removed. You must first find out what. That is up to you...I will not enter into a debate, who is right, who is wrong. I seek only truth, and I have no time to drag other along...if you want to find out if it is true, or not, you have to spend time searching out the subject yourself.

TWO SEEDLINE TAUGHT IN DEAD SEA SCROLLS, #1
emahiser.christogenea.org/Gen315%20PDFs/Two%20Seedline...
IN DEAD SEA SCROLLS, #1 ... Please Feel Free To Copy, ... Hebrew scholars have been aware for years that there is a problem with Genesis 4:1.

That passage, amongst others, we debated in my 3rd year in my Masters in Theological studies.
The truth is that, yes that passage is under some debate BUT not for the reasons you are stating, but because there are variant manuscripts and possible interpretations, such as:
http://biblehub.com/genesis/4-1.htm

We have textual variations between the Septuagaint and the Masorectic text for example in regards to Lord or "angel of the Lord".

None of these = what you are stating in this thread.

Friend, if you are happy with what you learned to earn your masters in theological teachings, that is fine with me. There are many schools of theological teaching, most are different, one from the other...they all can't be right now can they?
The pope also has one...why don't you follow him? Would you follow a man who does not have a masters in theological teaching? The twelve who followed Jesus did not. When you stand before God, show him your masters...perhaps he will accept that for any error you have made.
In the mean time, I don't have time for all your back and forth trying to defend your religion...I will tell you a truth: I believe all religions to be false, and the tool of Satan...Would you like me to prove your religion false? If so, just give me a list of things you believe.

[PaulSacramento]

You think I am defending my religion?
I am not, I am showing that your view may be incorrect based on ALL the information that I posted that has actually NOTHING to with with religion and everything to do with textual criticism.

[RickD]

Domenic wrote:
Would you like me to prove your religion false? If so, just give me a list of things you believe.

Ok. This will help decide how long you last here:

The deity of Christ
Salvation by Grace
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone
The resurrection of Christ
The Trinity