Evidence for God from Science

are we sleeping when we die or do we immediately face judgement

militarynewb wrote:are we sleeping when we die or do we immediately face judgement

Both. Personal judgement after death (commonly referred to as the Bema Seat Judgement of Christ) then the general judgement at the resurrection.

What he said ^^

time is but a blink of an eye when you sleep and wake up for the judgement

So we don't go to heaven right after we die then? And how does this correlate with NDEs?

Bump

I think we are pretty much already guilty. Death is a mere formality on the way to the not-so-nice-place.

Sometimes, people are given glimpses of the other side, but this guarantees nothing.

One needs to ask for Grace through the Son and the Judge might let you off the hook and into heaven. Just keep believing in, and ask the Son and you are most of the way there.

God Bless you.

can someone else give their input? LOL

militarynewb wrote:can someone else give their input? LOL

You have the correct answer. Byblos gave it here:

Both. Personal judgement after death (commonly referred to as the Bema Seat Judgement of Christ) then the general judgement at the resurrection.

militarynewb wrote:are we sleeping when we die or do we immediately face judgement

Hebrews 9:27 - after one dies, judgment comes. This is known as the first judgment which correlates to a hearing before a judge that happens upon ones incarceration and later the trial and final verdict is given later. (See Isa 24:22). If found in Christ, during this judgment - all is well and one resides with the Lord. If not, one is shut up in a prison and there awaits trial (Rev 20:11). This prison is where the chambers/cells of death are as Proverbs 7:27 and Proverbs 9:18 mentions... as well as Ezekiel 32:19-32 helps explain. The folks residing there are cognizant as Job 26:5,6 describes.

Philippians 1:22, 23 - As a believer in Christ, Paul mentions departing this life to be immediately with the Lord in Heaven which implies that one is not asleep and he mentions this principle again in 1 Thess 4:14 using the metaphor of sleep to describe mortal death. The ancient Hebrew concept of the sleep of death is not about sleeping/resting in peace till the the final judgment but rather how one wakes up from a dream into reality of life. Death was viewed as the awaking into a new reality, not sleep, but rather awaking out of sleep to be with one's of like mind and heart in sheol's paradise or sheol's punishment. Jesus brings this point out in Luke 16:19-31 which is based upon truth. Again, the thief on the cross who recognized Jesus was promised to be in paradise with Jesus that very same day and not some far off date, Luke23:43. Therefore when a Christian dies in this life, he goes immediately to be with the Lord in heaven. Those that are not, well, face a time in a prison house awaiting the final trial and verdict.

Also note that Rev 7:9-17 mentions those just coming out of the great tribulation - notice - they are not asleep and the events in Rev 20:11 has not happened yet for those in Rev 7:9, These folks are alive and with the Lord. Soul sleep is a myth built upon faulty use of scripture metaphors concerning 'sleep' without the Holy Spirit's influence of truth upon this subject.

Hope this helps...
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militarynewb wrote:are we sleeping when we die or do we immediately face judgement

That is a tough one because, well, you can find passages ( proof texts) that can lead you either way.
Christ makes it clear of those He resurrected ( Lazarus, the young girl...) that they were sleeping and tells them to wake up.
His parable of Lazarus also tells us that there is a judgement right after death ( although the exact moment is unknown it must be soon because the rich persons' family is still alive).
We are told in Ecclesiastics that the spirit returns to God BUT also told that the dead are aware of nothing.
In short the bible tends to give us "mixed messages" in this regard.

My view?
Since I believe in progressive revelation of God's word, I take Christ as the final say in the matter when there MAY APPEAR to be conflict between verses ( the dangers of proof texting) and if Christ says there will be Judgment at time of death, then there will be.
BUT He also says, there is no judgement for the believer : John 5:24

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

See, it is never so easy as to just proof text a few verses and voila !

PaulSacramento wrote:

militarynewb wrote:are we sleeping when we die or do we immediately face judgement

That is a tough one because, well, you can find passages ( proof texts) that can lead you either way.
Christ makes it clear of those He resurrected ( Lazarus, the young girl...) that they were sleeping and tells them to wake up.
His parable of Lazarus also tells us that there is a judgement right after death ( although the exact moment is unknown it must be soon because the rich persons' family is still alive).
We are told in Ecclesiastics that the spirit returns to God BUT also told that the dead are aware of nothing.
In short the bible tends to give us "mixed messages" in this regard.

My view?
Since I believe in progressive revelation of God's word, I take Christ as the final say in the matter when there MAY APPEAR to be conflict between verses ( the dangers of proof texting) and if Christ says there will be Judgment at time of death, then there will be.
BUT He also says, there is no judgement for the believer : John 5:24

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

See, it is never so easy as to just proof text a few verses and voila !

No proof texting here. Jesus gave the best description based upon truth concerning the afterlife in Luke 16:19-31. One was judged and sentenced where and the other... in paradise. This is consistent in the verses supplied as well. The Tradition of the Holy Spirit remains intact. The problem comes when modern folks interpret the word translated sleep when referring to death and imply their concept to it. The ancient Hebrew Language has about 8,000 words compare to modern Englishes 500,000 words. The old Hebrew school of thought was that when one dies, they sleep to mortality, yet, awake into a new life after they die. Later, God will rejoin the body with the spiritual essence of a person and at that time, the body awakes to new life rejoined with the already alive spirit of the person. It is rather simple, but lost on modern folks and clearly taught and implied multiple times throughout both OT and NT. Jesus clears up this matter in Luke 16:19-31 and he wasn't telling a quaint story based upon a hypothetical, but rather on the reality which he knew first hand as truth. So believe what Jesus says and keep it simple...
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I think this is a really interesting topic. I personally believe we go to heaven when we die (hopefully), but I find that scripture is a little ambiguous on this, like Paul.S said. There seems to be some contradictions going on. I understand how others view this topic differently, I see their reasoning and the scriptural validation. I'm not entirely 100% sure. I'm fine with saying that, but I believe our souls to go to heaven when we die. I have prayed and asked our Father for guidance, there are some things I know for certain, the answers are clear like the nose on my face, there are other things I'm not too sure about, but I have my interpretation. I am always open for God to work in me, I know nothing but the wisdom He gives me, if I think I have all the answers without question, never open to the possibility that perhaps I am wrong then God will never be able to set me straight. There have been many a thing in the past I have been pretty sure about, and then the HS has tapped me on the shoulder and changed my thinking and bought me into light and truth. I don't know if this is one of those times but until I get that tap on the shoulder I can only work on what I think and that is our spirits go to heaven when we die. An argument I have heard that ties the two areas of debate in together is that our souls go to heaven, our bodies lay (or bones) in the grave and that at the second coming the spirit and the body get raised together to inhabit the Kingdom of Heaven, so that they are not in spirit from but their bodily form like the believers alive on earth when it happens. Again I don't know, but interesting.

are spirit and soul the same thing?

Lonewolf wrote:are spirit and soul the same thing?

Sometimes they are used interchangeably. But I believe they are different. A soul is the mind, will, and emotions. Humans and certain animals have souls. Soulish animals can form relationships with each other, and with people. Think dogs and cats.

A spirit is something only humans have. Only humans have a spiritual part of us that allows us to realize God exists, and have a relationship with Him. Humans are body, soul, and spirit.