Evidence for God from Science

I've heard it said so many times about what is and what is not in the Bible in relation as to what is needed or not needed for salvation. I have heard and read that the mosaic law is no longer needed for salvation, that there is a new covenant. I have heard and read debate after debate that keeping the Sabbaths, abstaining from unclean foods, or that drinking or smoking and even cursing is not necessarily a measure of one's righteous living, much less one's salvation. Time and time again grace is the key word said, not by actions nor good works but by faith, and yet, time after time we fall back to legalisms. Legalisms of scripture, or so we like to quote. But I have to ask that if even though we teach and preach faith by grace, have we not ourselves also fallen into the same legalistic modus operandi with all of our quotations of what we interpret to be right and wrong belief in God which we criticize of others?

Do we, by default, judge and condemn the many based on our understanding of scripture, therefore becoming legalistic followers ourselves?

Have We Limited God's Grace?

God knows who are his. We do not know.
I think sometimes we judge people, write them off, but the truth may be, they are known by God.

Lonewolf wrote:Have We Limited God's Grace?

Of course we do because we love to put limits on everything in order to define it according to our terms. And yes, it is possible to use foul language and still be saved; and to drink and to smoke and to drive way over the speed limit* and to even have tattoos of naked women all over your body.

Anytime you are tempted to judge another Christian, read Romans 14.

FL

*RickD is guilty of this last offence, just look at the car he bought.

well, it wasn't where i was trying to head with the question
what i was trying to get at is the fact that we take liberties in our Christian belief as long as we are believers in Christ's (name)
but it appears that when it comes to the rest of the world's people, they are doomed because they have not come to embrace Christ's (name) as we have
therefore, they could do better than we do in life, but yet come out short at the end
it sounds to me that we have indeed become too legalistic in our understanding of the redemption that the Lord offers to the world at large

Lonewolf wrote:it sounds to me that we have indeed become too legalistic in our understanding of the redemption that the Lord offers to the world at large

Wrong, LoboSolito. Those who understand the Bible intimately know that God has always offered salvation in the same manner, and to all peoples. King David, who impregnated another man's wife then had that guy killed, was loved by God. You'll meet King David when you get to heaven and can ask him about it. God loved David so much that He calls him ''a man after My own heart.'' So, Dr Hana is right:

1over137 wrote:God knows who are his. We do not know.
I think sometimes we judge people, write them off, but the truth may be, they are known by God.

FL

lonewolf wrote:
...therefore, they could do better than we do in life, but yet come out short at the end...

Yes Locolobo, salvation is by God's grace through faith in Christ. It's not a competition to see who lives a better life.

right, understand what you're saying, but -and I'm talking Christianity in general- believes that a Muslim, or a Buddhist and non-Christians are all doomed., without hope., without salvation., is that right, or am I wrong?

Lonewolf wrote:right, understand what you're saying, but -and I'm talking Christianity in general- believes that a Muslim, or a Buddhist and non-Christians are all doomed., without hope., without salvation., is that right, or am I wrong?

You're asking me to speak for millions of Christians?

RickD wrote:

Lonewolf wrote:right, understand what you're saying, but -and I'm talking Christianity in general- believes that a Muslim, or a Buddhist and non-Christians are all doomed., without hope., without salvation., is that right, or am I wrong?

You're asking me to speak for millions of Christians?

no sir, I said that "I" was generalizing

you can state your view or understanding for yourself

there is no one here that speaks for "all Christians," NONE!

I have already come to grips with that reality
it troubles me, but so it is

what i have been trying to come to grips with is the "general" belief that if a person does not come to confess and baptize and believe like most "general" Christians believe, that they are doomed
and i was asking whether we (Christians) have become "legalistic" in that sense, and thus limiting God

what i have been trying to come to grips with is the "general" belief that if a person does not come to confess and baptize and believe like most "general" Christians believe, that they are doomed
and i was asking whether we (Christians) have become "legalistic" in that sense, and thus limiting God

Where did you get the idea that "in general" Christians believe water baptism is necessary for salvation?

RickD wrote:

what i have been trying to come to grips with is the "general" belief that if a person does not come to confess and baptize and believe like most "general" Christians believe, that they are doomed
and i was asking whether we (Christians) have become "legalistic" in that sense, and thus limiting God

Where did you get the idea that "in general" Christians believe water baptism is necessary for salvation?

never mind Rick Dee's, you're choosing and nitpicking and avoiding the real question., I give up

Lonewolf wrote:

RickD wrote:

what i have been trying to come to grips with is the "general" belief that if a person does not come to confess and baptize and believe like most "general" Christians believe, that they are doomed
and i was asking whether we (Christians) have become "legalistic" in that sense, and thus limiting God

Where did you get the idea that "in general" Christians believe water baptism is necessary for salvation?

never mind Rick Dee's, you're choosing and nitpicking and avoiding the real question., I give up

I'm trying to show you that your question may be based on false assumptions.

what i have been trying to come to grips with is the "general" belief that if a person does not come to confess and baptize and believe like most "general" Christians believe, that they are doomed

Well, I don't think the other thief, the one whom asked Jesus to remember him - and to whom Jesus said that He would, had much of a chance of to do a high dive off of the baptismal diving board. I rarely run across an evangelical believing this about baptism.

Philip wrote:

what i have been trying to come to grips with is the "general" belief that if a person does not come to confess and baptize and believe like most "general" Christians believe, that they are doomed

Well, I don't think the other thief, the one whom asked Jesus to remember him - and to whom Jesus said that He would, had much of a chance of to do a high dive off of the baptismal diving board. I rarely run across an evangelical believing this about baptism.

Is it possible that a priest squirted Holy Water on the theif with a water pistol, thereby baptizing said theif as he hung on the cross?

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Philip wrote:

what i have been trying to come to grips with is the "general" belief that if a person does not come to confess and baptize and believe like most "general" Christians believe, that they are doomed

Well, I don't think the other thief, the one whom asked Jesus to remember him - and to whom Jesus said that He would, had much of a chance of to do a high dive off of the baptismal diving board. I rarely run across an evangelical believing this about baptism.

Is it possible that a priest squirted Holy Water on the theif with a water pistol, thereby baptizing said theif as he hung on the cross?

FL

Baptism of the spirit, of desire, by fire. Take your pick, they all apply in this case.