Evidence for God from Science

Con's

'Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction."
"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."
"But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness."
(Timothy 6:9, 6:10, 6:11)



Pro's

"Throw a massive party every week !"
(Joe Average 1:1)




My next question would be......"How much money is too much money ?"

Just having enough money to eat doesn't sound like an enjoyable experience either.
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There is nothing wrong with wealth. Indeed, some of the Bible's great luminaries were fabulously wealthy.

Remember that God is the maker of the rich and the poor (Dt 8:17-18, 1 Sam 2:7 and 1 Chronicles 29:11-12 among many other passages) and that the more you have, the more you must excercise caution and be aware of the temptations that entice you to sin, 1 Tim 6:17-18.

One last thing: Do you think this doesn't apply to you because you are an Average Joe living from paycheck-to-paycheck? WRONG! If you are sitting in front of your computer in a First World nation, then you are already richer than 75% of the earth's population.

FL

Hiya FL !

Below is an interesting quote I found about money. What do you reckon ?


"Money is not something that is morally neutral, a resource to be used in good or bad ways depending solely upon our attitude toward it. Mammon is a power that seeks to dominate us.

Behind money are invisible spiritual powers, powers that are seductive and deceptive, powers that demand an all-embracing devotion.

… behind money are very real spiritual forces that energize it and give it a life of its own. Hence, money is an active agent; it is a law unto itself; and it is capable of inspiriting devotion.

For Christ money is an idolatry we must be converted from in order to be converted to him.

That is why so much of Jesus’ teaching regarding wealth is evangelistic in character. He calls people to turn away from the mammon god in order to worth the one true God.

The call of God is upon us to use money within the confines of a properly disciplined spiritual life and to manage money for the good of all humanity and for the glory of God. And when this is done we are drawn deeper into the divine Center. We stand amazed that God would use our meager efforts to do his work upon the earth. . . Money is a blessing when it is used within the context of the life and power of God."

(source: http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/money-good-or-bad)

It's the "Love of money" that's evil, not money in general. Greed is typically evil, money is not. In modern society, it is virtually impossible to live without money, barring homeless people hiding in caves living off the wilderness.

Obviously, gluttony is bad. That doesn't make food morally wrong.

Hiya Seekingsanctuary !

I agree with the love and attachment to worldly stuff takes you away from God. I'm mainly interested in discussing the acquisition of LOTS and LOTS of money.

e.g. what would happen if you suddenly won $20 mill. ?

I can guarantee that it will alter your personality in some way. Exactly in what way is the question. I know a lot of people lose the plot in pretty bad way after winning the lottery.

Does is matter if you're a devout Christian ? Will God's grace still get you back home in the afterlife ?

"What you bind on earth, you also bind in Heaven" - how does this apply ?

Money is regarded by some as an active agent (a spirit of sorts) and not a benign object.

Some of your relatives, that you haven't seen for 20,30,40 years, suddenly start coming out of the woodwork asking for a slice of the pie !



I will keep investigating..........

LittleHamster wrote:Below is an interesting quote I found about money. What do you reckon ? "Money is not something that is morally neutral, a resource to be used in good or bad ways depending solely upon our attitude toward it. Mammon is a power that seeks to dominate us.Behind money are invisible spiritual powers, powers that are seductive and deceptive, powers that demand an all-embracing devotion.… behind money are very real spiritual forces that energize it and give it a life of its own. Hence, money is an active agent; it is a law unto itself; and it is capable of inspiriting devotion.

If the above is true, you must immediately send me all of your money so that I may preserve you from Evil.

What a load of crap! Seriously, The Bible never says that money is evil or filled with a spirit of its own. This is what the Bible says:

SeekingSanctuary wrote:It's the "Love of money" that's evil, not money in general. Greed is typically evil, money is not.

Job was very rich but that didn't cause him to curse God. King Solomon was super rich but his downfall came about because of his lust for women. Should then women be considered Evil as well?

FL

LittleHamster wrote:Hiya Seekingsanctuary !

I agree with the love and attachment to worldly stuff takes you away from God. I'm mainly interested in discussing the acquisition of LOTS and LOTS of money.

e.g. what would happen if you suddenly won $20 mill. ?

I can guarantee that it will alter your personality in some way. Exactly in what way is the question. I know a lot of people lose the plot in pretty bad way after winning the lottery.

Does is matter if you're a devout Christian ? Will God's grace still get you back home in the afterlife ?

"What you bind on earth, you also bind in Heaven" - how does this apply ?

Money is regarded by some as an active agent (a spirit of sorts) and not a benign object.

Some of your relatives, that you haven't seen for 20,30,40 years, suddenly start coming out of the woodwork asking for a slice of the pie !



I will keep investigating..........

Hey, Hamster

I think the line about how the only thing that can corrupt a man comes from his heart fits in here.

Let's say I win the lotto and get millions of dollars. This may lead to me acting like a greedy insane sociopathic miser. However this isn't the money's fault, its mine. I feel that it is an issue of your choice. If I act this way, it is because of decisions I have made: it has nothing to do with the money but how I felt about the money and what I did with it.

FL said: "One last thing: Do you think this doesn't apply to you because you are an Average Joe living from paycheck-to-paycheck? WRONG! If you are sitting in front of your computer in a First World nation, then you are already richer than 75% of the earth's population."

Absolutely!!!

Wealth can be a fantastic tool to positively change the material conditions of others, IF it is wisely distributed and connected with higher purposes. And pumped into ministeries utilizing monies according to Godly principles, can INDIRECTLY impact people spiritually. When you minisister to people's material conditions, it often softens their hearts to hear what a person or church has to say about Jesus.

Thanks for your opinions F.L., S.S. and PtheCurious. I'm starting to build a picture....

Mark 10:25 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Luke 18:25 "For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."


I think the reason for JC saying this is that by having lots of money this would not bring a person to the point where he has to ask God for salvation - life is too comfortable for him or he gets heavily distracted in worldly affairs.

But then there are those who are centered on God and find salvation. Hopefully, if these types suddenly become rich, they would put that money to some type of service to others for God's glory. But then again, they might not. It probably wouldn't matter anyway since they have most likely already received salvation through grace.



edit:

Just to add one more point.....Becoming wealthy yourself maybe ok but your Children and generations to come might be cut off from salvation due to that wealth.




.

LittleHamster wrote:Just to add one more point.....Becoming wealthy yourself maybe ok but your Children and generations to come might be cut off from salvation due to that wealth.

It seems to me that you are on crusade against wealth. Did you notice Philip' post:

Philip wrote:

FL said: "One last thing: Do you think this doesn't apply to you because you are an Average Joe living from paycheck-to-paycheck? WRONG! If you are sitting in front of your computer in a First World nation, then you are already richer than 75% of the earth's population."

Absolutely!!!

Wealth can be a fantastic tool to positively change the material conditions of others, IF it is wisely distributed and connected with higher purposes. And pumped into ministeries utilizing monies according to Godly principles, can INDIRECTLY impact people spiritually. When you minister to people's material conditions, it often softens their hearts to hear what a person or church has to say about Jesus.

Since you are richer than most people in this world, how has your wealth been a hindrance to your spiritual growth?

FL

Since you are richer than most people in this world, how has your wealth been a hindrance to your spiritual growth?

It's a constant distraction away from the spiritual life. And on some level, it is to every human.

Getting caught up in the pursuit of wealth and materialism can lead to great sorrow as well. Wealth is neither good or bad and can be a positive tool or it can lead to destruction. Most of us are not spiritually able to handle the dangers of great wealth - I'll likely not ever know, not by Western standards, anyway. The Western world and it's constant pursuit of materialism has well proven how spiritually bankrupt it can be - and mostly is.

LittleHamster wrote:Since you are richer than most people in this world, how has your wealth been a hindrance to your spiritual growth?

In Zimbabwe, I would be a multi-trillionair ! But It costs a few trillion to buy a loaf of bread

Wealth is generally relative to what place you live in.

Anyway, I'm more interested in the reason why Jesus made that statement about the camel going through the eye of the needle.

Anyway, I'm more interested in the reason why Jesus made that statement about the camel going through the eye of the needle.

Hamster, partly it is because, in many ways, a wealthy man FEELS self-sufficient and is far less likely to depend upon the Lord or to sense his need of Him. The wealthy often ONLY have their eyes upon the material things that their wealth can bring them - that and of the acquisition of ever more wealth. And so they tend to think of their well-being all being wrapped up in materialism, and not within the relationship of God above. They don't even realize that their material blessings come from the Lord. Of course, some or even much of their material things come from greed and dishonest means. One can get massively caught up in wealthy pursuits that keep them far from seeking the Lord (see Solomon). And yet, Job and Abraham were very wealthy men and were considered righteous by the Lord.

Philip wrote:

Anyway, I'm more interested in the reason why Jesus made that statement about the camel going through the eye of the needle.

Hamster, partly it is because, in many ways, a wealthy man FEELS self-sufficient and is far less likely to depend upon the Lord or to sense his need of Him. The wealthy often ONLY have their eyes upon the material things that their wealth can bring them - that and of the acquisition of ever more wealth. And so they tend to think of their well-being all being wrapped up in materialism, and not within the relationship of God above. They don't even realize that their material blessings come from the Lord. Of course, some or even much of their material things come from greed and dishonest means. One can get massively caught up in wealthy pursuits that keep them far from seeking the Lord (see Solomon). And yet, Job and Abraham were very wealthy men and were considered righteous by the Lord.

Thanks for that explanation pthecurious (and everyone else too). I must be getting a little paranoid in my old age. I've suspected lately that there is something more sinister going on 'behind the scenes' with money.

LittleHamster wrote:Wealth is generally relative to what place you live in.

I have a friend who is very wealthy. When Richard was looking to buy a new car, I told him to buy a Rolls Royce Phantom. ''I can't go around in that'' he said. So I suggested he buy the cheaper Rolls Royce Ghost. He just looked at me with a wry smile...you see, Richard knew that it was ME who wanted to ride around in the Rolls. My friend gives so much of his money away that all he can really afford is a cheap S-Class Mercedes.

Now, I'm pretty sure that many Christians would snicker and say, ''He still drives around in a $150,000 car!'' True...but his is an example we can all follow: to give away so much of our disposable income that we can't afford the luxuries normal to the people in our income bracket. Maybe now you'll better understand why I wrote this:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:One last thing: Do you think this doesn't apply to you because you are an Average Joe living from paycheck-to-paycheck? WRONG! If you are sitting in front of your computer in a First World nation, then you are already richer than 75% of the earth's population.

FL