Reason for Parables

[Rob]

So I was reading the Gospels last night and noticed this part seemingly for the first time. I must have read it many times before, but maybe I didn't quite understand it. In fact, I'm not so sure that I do still.

Before I start, let me just say that I appear to be going through a phase right now in my walk. As I've been introduced more and more to the Calvinist view which- raised Arminian- I immediately rejected and even got mad at.
Well, I wouldn't call myself a Calvinist, but I am less opposed to it as I was before. I guess right now I find myself somewhere in between. I don't know if the enemy is just messing with me or what, but I seem to constantly fear and doubt my salvation. I'll find myself seeking to do good works to prove to myself that I am saved instead of because it's right or because I love Him. I'm praying for help to love Him more and praying for assurance as well.

I don't doubt God's existence and I believe in the finished work of Christ intellectually, but sometimes and especially lately I've been struggling with a lot of guilt from past things I've done. It maybe wouldn't feel so bad to me if I'd done these things before I believed in Jesus, but alas- I already knew the truth and followed my own selfish desires and did them anyway. It brought me a lot of ruin in my personal life and I'm still trying to pick up the pieces and turn to God for help. I struggle with guilt a lot even though I know intellectually that my sins were nailed to the cross with Christ.

Anyway, I guess you can keep that in mind as I go into my question.

There are four parallel passages in the gospels that talk about the reason Jesus speaks in parables:
Matthew 13:10-17
Mark 4:11-12
Luke 8:9-10
John 12:37-41

These all refer to Isaiah 6:9.

As I noticed it last night (in Mark initially), the thought popped into my head that Jesus is intentionally speaking in parables because if He spoke to the people as He spoke to the apostles, then the people would turn and be forgiven. Which apparently He doesn't want to happen?
That struck me to go against what I feel like I know about the character of Jesus. Why in the world would Jesus not want someone to be forgiven?
Then Calvinist ideas popped into my head that Jesus simply didn't choose them to be saved, so He's not going to reveal His truth to them. It reads to me like he chooses to make them not understand so that they won't turn and be forgiven. Why would He do that?

Some further thoughts I had...
Is this a judgment against the people from God for not seeing and having hardened hearts already? Sort of like how God hardens Pharaoh's heart further as a judgment for hard-heartedness?
Can someone whose heart is hardened ever turn, try to turn, or even desire to turn?

I'm really struggling with this.

[Canuckster1127]

Good thoughts in my opinion.

I'm not a Calvinist, nor am I an Arminian. I think both those positions are helpful in understanding things and I also think that even positions that seem diametrically opposed within those two systems can be true at the same time when viewed and understood properly. I tend to find a lot in Trinitarianism (Barth, Athanasius, the Cappodocean Fathers, the Torrance Brothers, C. Baxter Kruger etc.) that is more helpful than the Calvinism/Arminianism spectrum which are both really just different aspects of Reformed Theology. There's a lot more to Christianity than just Reformed Theology.

The sense in which Jesus spoke in parables had an immediate context. Jesus was teaching the common people and at the same time, there were those present who were seeking for things to accuse him of, in order to silence him. These were the Pharisees and religious scribes who were continually looking for grounds to attach Him and silence Him.

So speaking in parables provided stories designed to allow the hearer to get the primary point Jesus was teaching, without overtly saying it and providing fresh fodder to the self-righteous listeners who already had their minds made up and were no longer willing to look at their own hearts.

I don't believe it was a matter of Jesus trying to hide the truth in order that those God predetermined to be lost wouldn't be saved. I think that's a horrendous view of God and it looks nothing like the Christ I see portrayed in the Gospels or the Christ the Holy Spirit bears witness to in my heart.

Yes, I believe people who have hard hearts can turn and desire to turn. The key is the word "repent" which is, in my opinion very misunderstood. Repent has the sense today of remorse and being sad and a response of sorrow toward God for our sin. There's nothing wrong with that, but that sense of the word is not really in the original language from which that word is translated. The root simply means to change one's mind or perspective. It's turning from what you've seen and believed before and daring to believe that there is something better and truer which is found in accepting what God has to say about the matter.

For me, in my life, one of the major areas of repenting or changing my mind has been in daring to believe that God really is loving and better than what I've been taught and conditioned by my religious upbringing to believe about God.

Maybe that can help.

[PaulSacramento]

Parables are an interesting way of communication and were very common in the ANE ( Ancient Near East).
They were used because they reflected the social-history of the audience and because there could be many meanings withing a parable.
Jesus used parable to teach and aimed them at those He knew would understand because they wanted to.
Ever notice that some people, when confronted with something they don't know just shrug it off while others do everything to find out what it means?
While I am sure some hidden messages were just for the apostles to prepare them for what was to come, I do NOT believe that Jesus would dent truth and salvation to anyone looking for it.

[Rob]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I agree that it seems like a horrendous view of God, which is definitely why it bothered me so much. What you say about there being an immediate context makes a lot of sense and is something that I considered, but I'm trying to be really really careful about falling into the trap of eisegesis and just reading my tradition into the scripture. I'm in no way saying that you're doing that or anything, but I'm just really paranoid about it myself. Maybe overly so.

It occurred to me that perhaps another reason Jesus speaks in parables is an act of mercy to the unbelieving, though He doesn't say that here. It seems as though there will be degrees of punishment for unbelief as Jesus says in Matthew 10:15. If people understand clearly, yet still do not believe perhaps they'll be punished more severely than those who also don't believe, but never understood clearly?

I also agree with what you said about repentance. One thing that really bothers me is that occasionally I remember something bad I've done fondly. I generally get angry with myself and correct myself that the thing I did was wrong, but it creeps in. However, most other times I am repulsed by the way I thought and things I did back then. Do you think this means that I haven't changed my mind about it since I sometimes turn and "look back to Sodom" I guess you could say? (Not saying I go back and do the thing, but that horrible longing can creep back in and I hate it.)
I'm not sure if I'm making any sense here...

[Canuckster1127]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I agree that it seems like a horrendous view of God, which is definitely why it bothered me so much. What you say about there being an immediate context makes a lot of sense and is something that I considered, but I'm trying to be really really careful about falling into the trap of eisegesis and just reading my tradition into the scripture. I'm in no way saying that you're doing that or anything, but I'm just really paranoid about it myself. Maybe overly so.

It occurred to me that perhaps another reason Jesus speaks in parables is an act of mercy to the unbelieving, though He doesn't say that here. It seems as though there will be degrees of punishment for unbelief as Jesus says in Matthew 10:15. If people understand clearly, yet still do not believe perhaps they'll be punished more severely than those who also don't believe, but never understood clearly?

I also agree with what you said about repentance. One thing that really bothers me is that occasionally I remember something bad I've done fondly. I generally get angry with myself and correct myself that the thing I did was wrong, but it creeps in. However, most other times I am repulsed by the way I thought and things I did back then. Do you think this means that I haven't changed my mind about it since I sometimes turn and "look back to Sodom" I guess you could say? (Not saying I go back and do the thing, but that horrible longing can creep back in and I hate it.)
I'm not sure if I'm making any sense here...

You're making a lot of sense. I've been where you are and I remember much of this quite vividly. Eisegesis is a danger in all things and frankly I think we'll find it a lifelong process of learning, unlearning and relearning on a lot of things and then find in eternity that we still have much to learn and were wrong about a lot of things. Being wrong doesn't frighten me much anymore. Camping on things and becoming unteachable is a far worse fate in my opinion.

I'm less caught up in the whole paradigm of separation from God and eternal punishment. I think a lot of that is religious narrative that has found its way into Christian religion through paganism (Hades and Greco-Roman mythology) and it's created a fear-driven and fear based religious system that's veiled much of what Jesus demonstrated in terms of the love of God. Lest you panic and think that means I reject hell or am sort of Universalist, I'm not. I simply choose to believe God is good and better than much of religion paints Him to be.

Paul spoke frequently of the very struggle you mention and all of us, if we're honest are familiar with it. There's a part of us, the old man. the flesh or the sin nature, that looks longingly upon what we've done in the past and the temptations around us today. We see that and we think that is freedom. Christ experienced that in His humanity as well. The difference is He resisted and never fell to it. We positionally are with Christ but in terms of our daily walk and experiences are continually coming against that sort of thing. The good news is that we no longer have to live in fear that God's love for us is conditional on our behavior. That doesn't mean we have license or are free from temporal consequences, but we no longer have to try to struggle to somehow earn or justify God's love for us. We can grow and mature and find strength in our love for God that pushes us to do right not because we have to to avoid punishment, but because we want to to show our Love and appreciation for God and what He's already done for us.

Here's a thought. Go back and look at what you wrote above and ask yourself, what is based in love and what is based in fear and shame. Maybe that's something that can lead to some self-awareness and willingness to dare believe there's something better in how to view things and how to live.

[Rob]

Here's a thought. Go back and look at what you wrote above and ask yourself, what is based in love and what is based in fear and shame. Maybe that's something that can lead to some self-awareness and willingness to dare believe there's something better in how to view things and how to live.

Hmm. Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding what you're asking here. I've had a problem with fear my whole life.
Ever since I was a kid, it was constant. Fear of this, fear of that- fear that I was going to die. The thing that repulses me the most about my fear is that it is so totally selfish- I suppose by definition.

I think most people wouldn't classify me as a selfish person since I tend to be quite generous, but it's the fear... Especially lately I've really been struggling with. It makes me feel horribly selfish. It feels like God is being silent with me. Not often, but there have been times when I've really felt God's love. Especially when I think about the price He paid. Honestly it moves me to tears. I really don't like my need to "feel something" all the time. I suppose it's how I was raised (Pentecostal).
I understand that we shouldn't base so much on our feelings. But it would be nice every once in a while to feel God and I just haven't for a long time. As I said before, it doesn't diminish my belief that He's there. I've felt Him before, so I know He's real and can move me. He's delivered me from an unclean spirit before, rescued my marriage, and other things too.
I suppose His silence with me despite my prayer and fasting is going to teach me something in the long run. I don't know what and it doesn't feel good right now, but maybe it will later. I just need to trust Him more.

I feel like I am called to do something for Him. What that thing is, I really don't know. Another person told me that they felt I was to become a pastor some day. If that's true and I am supposed to go into some sort of ministry, I would feel much better about it if my own assurance were in tact. Otherwise I'd almost feel like I was lying to people or that I wasn't being genuine about the saving power of Christ.

Sorry for the meandering posts, I'm just vomiting out all the things that have been on my mind.

[RickD]

Rob,

Let me first start by saying that you sound a lot like me. I could've written a lot of what you wrote. So, I can certainly sympathize with what you're going through.

Rob wrote:
I don't doubt God's existence and I believe in the finished work of Christ intellectually, but sometimes and especially lately I've been struggling with a lot of guilt from past things I've done. It maybe wouldn't feel so bad to me if I'd done these things before I believed in Jesus, but alas- I already knew the truth and followed my own selfish desires and did them anyway. It brought me a lot of ruin in my personal life and I'm still trying to pick up the pieces and turn to God for help. I struggle with guilt a lot even though I know intellectually that my sins were nailed to the cross with Christ.

There's not a week that goes by(sometimes even a day) that I'm reminded of something I did in the past, that I'm ashamed of. Aside from getting the feeling that I want to punch myself in the face for doing what I did, I've learned to just ask God for forgiveness, for what seems like the millionth time, then I just give it to Him.

As far as assurance goes, there may be times in our walk that we don't feel sure of our salvation. But as one who has trusted Christ for salvation, I know I'm eternally secure in Him.

I try to keep things as simple as possible, so with those who are having trouble with assurance, I just point to John 3:16:
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

If you have believed/trusted in who Christ is and what He has done for you, you HAVE eternal life. Period.

As far as your questions about parables, I think others have answered them.

Feel free to continue here, or pm me if you need to talk about anything.

[PaulSacramento]

Whenever I start to feel unworthy because of what I have done in the past or feel that God can never love me because of the things I have done or even thing/tempted of doing, I remember Peter.
Peter, who not only knew Jesus PERSONALLY and knew WHO and WHAT He was but was his closest and perhaps dearest friend, they lived and laughed and cried together and what did Peter do?
Deny Him not once, not twice but THREE times !
And what did Jesus do?
Not only did he forgive him but:

15 So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus *said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He *said to him, “Tend My lambs.” 16 He *said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He *said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17 He *said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love

He said those things 3 times because Peter denied Him 3 times and he said that for Peter's benefit, so that he would know not only that he was forgiven and loved but that those denials ( perhaps the greatest of sins) did NOT make Jesus value Him any less and that Jesus still valued and care and loved Him so much that He give Peter the responsibilities above.

I am no Peter of course, none of us are, but it is important to understand that God's love is like NO OTHER love and that He is and always will be, there for us.

[Rob]

For a long time, I didn't understand the significance of why Jesus asks Peter 3 times if he loves Him. I actually just heard that explanation for the first time probably two weeks ago or so when I was listening to something.
That is really neat. I can't imagine how terrible Peter must have felt after he realized that he was doing exactly what he said he would never do... Sometimes I feel like that too.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts so far. The start of this thread was to talk about those specific verses and their implications, but I've sort of turned it into my own angsty thing. Sorry about that, but your responses are really helping me.
Thanks again.

[1over137]

I suppose His silence with me despite my prayer and fasting is going to teach me something in the long run. I don't know what and it doesn't feel good right now, but maybe it will later. I just need to trust Him more.

This is what I believe.

[abelcainsbrother]

I think Jesus speaking in parables was a way of not casting pearls to swine also it was prophecied that the Messiah would speak in parables.Jesus said the way is narrow and few there be that find it, not everybody is going to follow the narrow way to heaven.

[neo-x]

As Paul and Bart have said...there is no love like the love of God, any idea of love we have is in the Bible, that God went out and gave up his son so that you are saved. Sometimes I think I know or have an idea of what God's love is but truth be told we only have a glimpse of that love.

God is silent most of the time, because most of the time the problem is not that he is not there but we are not prepared to accept it that he is there. Peter was not ready to accept that God could forgive him, and Christ reminded him 3 times to make sure peter understood that there was nothing to answer for, there was no confession needed. That he was forgiven, that Christ knew peter's weakness and that along with all others peter wasn't perfect. That the forgiveness was free, peter didn't even have to say he was sorry. Sometimes when we are down with ourselves and think of ourselves as despicable sinners, I imagine we are no better than peter but then God is right there to forgive us unconditionally, even when we think we have rejected God thorough our sins and deeds.

That old Adam in us, just doesn't die in a night. I have done many things I am ashamed of and would never do again and the thought humbles me and let me see that we all are broken. Bart here helped me a while ago when I was struggling that God is not an accountant. He is not micromanaging our deeds and sins, he is not checking a balance or filing a report about our doubts, insecurities and misdeeds. Because that is the version of God I was raised up with. In short its not about justice, its about mercy and guess what God prefers mercy.

And I really realized how pathetic a version of God I had in my mind. The God in my mind was small, he was angry over the petty stuff. He didn't care how I felt or how I went through the hard stuff in life, at the end, I should have a good report card or else I am doomed.

I hope you find comfort in the love God has for you. Fight your demons, not with doubt about God but fight them with the peace and love of God.