Evidence for God from Science

i've had the question on my mind for a while? What happens to those who never heard or hear the message of Jesus christ ? , Babies who die young, children who die young , Lost tribes, Maybe mentally deficient Kids?

God's grace and mercy are bigger than anything we can imagine as is his justice.

You can't put God in a box and create rules for him, it just doesn't work like that, I cannot say for sure what happens to these people, but I do trust that God has it all in hand.

tunde1992 wrote:i've had the question on my mind for a while? What happens to those who never heard or hear the message of Jesus christ ? , Babies who die young, children who die young , Lost tribes, Maybe mentally deficient Kids?

IMO, only those that reject Christ are not saved.
And to reject something means that you have known it and decided it is not for you.
You can't reject something you have no knowledge of.
You can't reject something if you do not have the mental capacity to understand what it is OR what it means to reject it.
People who reject or don't believe because they have never had a chance to believe, for no fault of THEIR OWN, will be saved because God's grace is given NOT because it was earned or because it was merited, but because God LOVES Us and gives it freely to all those He chooses to.
Why would he choose to deny it to those that He KNOWS don't know any better ?

IMO, only those that reject Christ are not saved.

And as Jesus is part of God, and as one most certainly CAN reject what they DO know of God without knowing the full details about the Jesus part of Him, then they most certainly CAN reject God without knowing the Gospel. Interesting that in Romans, Paul speaks of what God HAS made clear to heathens that came before - and very interesting that He doesn't mention a whit about their lack of knowledge of Jesus or that this knowledge would have saved them. In FACT, it very much suggests that they have ALREADY rejected God in what He has ALREADY revealed to them - and that is enough for their condemnation. Now, will there punishment be less severe, etc? Yes, perhaps. But that does not mean they will be saved.

And to reject something means that you have known it and decided it is not for you.

No, God does not decide whether one will reject or accept Him. He leaves that opportunity and responsibility to them, although He will no doubt lure, steer and encourage those who are willing to listen and obey at least what He shows them. The more He shows and they positively respond, the more He will provide - and He will provide all necessary to the one whom truly wants to know more.

You can't reject something you have no knowledge of.

True. BUT, God has made ALL aware of His existence and basic provision - and people can and do reject THOSE! Also, while we know God will be most merciful, just and loving, we don't know or see all that He does. I would very much agree that those mentally impaired, children before certain understandings, babies, etc, that they are saved upon death - or at least provided and understanding that they can they fairly decide for themselves what their response will be to Jesus.

You can't reject something if you do not have the mental capacity to understand what it is OR what it means to reject it.

That's unScriptural, that is, the part about not understanding what it means to reject God. The mentally ill, children too immature to understand their sin and responsibility - those are another issue! Also, post-Christ's resurrection, we have no Scriptural basis for seeing one come to Salvation independent of them FIRST hearing the Gospel (Romans 10:17). Remember, it is GOD Whom places all in time, place, history, etc - and He does so according to HIS eternal plans. So, no jungle, no remote place, no time in history, is too vast, obscure or a hurdle for Him to reach people. We must trust that. He MIGHT reach people who have not heard the Gospel in some different ways, but BEFORE death. We just can't know for certain.

People who reject or don't believe because they have never had a chance to believe, for no fault of THEIR OWN, will be saved because God's grace is given NOT because it was earned or because it was merited, but because God LOVES Us and gives it freely to all those He chooses to. Why would he choose to deny it to those that He KNOWS don't know any better ?

Again, many DO know better - or at least enough. What is implied here is that many people have an INFORMATION problem, and yet most in America, surrounded by churches preaching the Gospel, the Bible online and explained prolifically online, etc, etc - and yet most here, absolutely saturated with the Gospel available, nonetheless choose to reject God. What MOST have is not an information problem, but a HEART and MIND problem - that is, they want to "serve the Creature," they want to ONLY obey that little god they see in the mirror every morning. And if NOT being familar with the Gospel would be akin to a "get out of Hell free card," then we should cancel most missions work ASAP! We should just keep the heathen safe by making sure they remain ignorant of the Gospel. Why do you think the Great Commission is even important, IF ignorance of Jesus would be a positive thing? That makes absolutely NO sense!

Read a bit of Romans 1 and 2. See what the heathen DO know and what they CAN reject, without extensive knowledge.

One other thing: To AVOID God, to not search for Him, to pretend His existence is unknowable, to buy into lies denying Him, to adopt false, heathen religions, (and, espescially) to deny Jesus is God or His crucifixion or Resurrection - these ARE all forms of rejecting Him!

Bottom line is, we don't know exactly how God deals with everyone, everywhere, everytime - but we DO know what His Word says, let's not go beyond it in our understandings. Let's not ASSUME that ignorance will lead to bliss. That sounds very much like universalism, to me!

No, it isn't universalisim.
It is simply stating that God can NOT be less than humans and if us lowly humans can understand the difference between choosing to NOT believe and not believing by no fault of their own then I am sure God can too.
Better than we can obviously.

But to each their own.

How does God handle those people that hear the word, but do not believe someone really came back from the dead?

How do people make themselves truly believe?

stuartcr wrote:How does God handle those people that hear the word, but do not believe someone really came back from the dead?

How do people make themselves truly believe?

The resurrection is vital to faith. No resurrection, no faith.

I don't think you can make yourself believe. Belief comes from the heart.

stuartcr wrote:How does God handle those people that hear the word, but do not believe someone really came back from the dead?

How do people make themselves truly believe?

I think that God, being God, KNOWS why people reject Him or why people don't believe in Him.
Far better than they do actually because while we can fool ourselves, we can't fool Him.
Like the skeptic that THINKS he doesn't believe because he sees no evidence BUT really does not believe because to believe in God means that he must change his life and stop doing what deep down he knows is wrong.

don't think you can make yourself believe. Belief comes from the heart.

Zap!!! Yes, belief comes for the attitude of the heart and mind - one wants to and does believe - or not. Yet it's not something you DO, but a state of mind and heart towards God. But you can't believe on your own - First, God has to woo you, to open your eyes to His presence, to implant in your mind your need for Him. And He does this for ALL so WILLING/DESIRING to believe, who are not permanently resistant. And so His hand is already outstretched to all who want to grasp it. But He will not GRAB your hand, He will not force anyone to love Him. This decision He has given to us. So resisting, running from Him, or pretending He doesn't exist and asserting one can't truly know whether or not He exists - these are all indications of one in rebellion to God. There will be NO rebels in Heaven!

And I think there will be no one in hell who has not heard the gospel by any fault of his. Think of small children.

neo-x wrote:And I think there will be no one in hell who has not heard the gospel by any fault of his. Think of small children.

Unfortunately there will be a hell and there will be people there and there will be people there that HAVE heard the Gospel.
Those are the people that reject Christ and the Gospel of love and Grace and Salvation.

No denying that, Paul. But I find it logically imposible that God blames someone for their inability to ever hear of the gospel, like they never even heard of it.

neo-x wrote:No denying that, Paul. But I find it logically imposible that God blames someone for their inability to ever hear of the gospel, like they never even heard of it.

Agreed.
Add to that those that have either been preached a false gospel and rejected it or those that have been exposed to a false gospel and have been turned off because of it.
In short, IMO, anyone that does not believe in God and Christ because they do not KNOW them.
However, this does not include those that do not know God and do NOT want to know.

Job 34:21,22,23, "For His eyes are on the ways of man, And He sees all his steps. 22 There is no darkness nor shadow of death Where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves. 23 For He need not further consider a man, That he should go before God in judgment." NKJV

God is all knowing in the most absolute way so much more so than we can even imagine and can dispense with human being as he sees fit without any injustice at all to himself or anyone else.

With that, I leave this matter in God's hands as he knows what He is doing. Let's shine his light to all and remember Neo lives in Pakistan where sharing one's faith in Jesus Christ can cost one their life.

On these matters under discussion on this thread: John 2:25 and John 6:64 is true...

Let us instead rejoice in his grace undeserved and unwarranted knowing that he already knows who will believe and who will betray. He even knows those who will betray offspring who will later believe and permits betrayers living in groups of like minded souls for purpose way to great for us to actually wrap or minds around.

Blessings
-
-
-

But I find it logically impossible that God blames someone for their inability to ever hear of the gospel, like they never even heard of it.

You CAN reject God without knowing the Gospel - Romans makes that clear. And if American society is any indication, it's not as if most people's problem is ignorance of the Gospel, but rather their blatant rejection of it. People would not believe in Jesus, despite watching His many incredible miracles - they even asserted His power was of the devil.