jpbg33 wrote:Yes I do see that when we are saved we are still human and make mistake But to do wrong because we can I don't believe that is right. I also believe we can live a sinless life after we are saved because God said he has given us the power to overcome, but I do not believe we will live a sinless live after we are saved. There is a difference in being able to do something and doing it. so I believe we are able but we do not live a completely sinless life. But if someone says they are saved and lives a sinful life is he really saved whether he was before or not that really doesn't matter, but at the point that he is living in open sin is he really saved.
And I am not saying he is not saved because of his sin but rather he is sinning because he is not saved
an apple is not a good apple because the meat of the apple is white but the meat of the apple is white because it is a good apple.
The same I think is true of Christians we are not Christians because we do not sin but we do not sin because we are Christians.
we may mass up that is because we are humans also but we do not have to because God gave us the power to overcome.
I also believe Christians will not live in open sin.
it is like gravity what goes up must come back down. Whether it has energy to go down on its on or not with out any effort of its on it will come
back down.
That is what I think Christian living is us as people can do nothing to be saved or stay saved but if we are saved our salvation will manifest its presents in our
works and if we are saved we will live as sinless as we possible can. Not to be saved or to keep salvation but because we are saved
You recognise that it is impossible to live without sin,that mistakes will be made along the way but the evidence of an unsaved person is to live with sin? Or perhaps live in sin, so where does the distinction lie?
The evidence of an unsaved person is to live without Christ in their heart. That is a matter of the heart that only God can possibly know.
Looking outwardly at the supposedly sinless actions of a professing christian does not in any way expose what lies beneath those 'good works'. The condition of their heart. There is a difference. A big difference.
A difference that we could not possibly know by our observations. I don't think we have the right to judge the condition of a person's heart and if they are saved based on their outwardly actions.
Jesus came here for the least of us. Those that the world and even the 'church' look down upon, using the struggles and faults of others to exhalt their own percieved worthiness and 'goodness'
Like the Pharisee and the tax collector.
'Thank you God that I am sinless, that I am not like these other people living in sin'
'Forgive me Father for being so sinful, for making the same mistakes over again, for being wretched and not at all worthy'
Pride vs humility
We all sin. Some by pride and arrogance more so than outwardly action. Others by making repeated obvious sins but with a heart of humilty.
Jesus said it was the tax collector who held favour with God.
We don't know the burdens of life a person may carry on their shoulders. Some people have been dealt the roughest of blows.
The girl who was molested during her childhood and is so screwed up on such a deep, psychological level that those scars are carried throughout her life. People see her as sexually promiscuous and easy but she is just a women caught in that child's pain.
The drunk on the street who begs for money then spends it on booze. Who lives through a lifetime of mockery but shares what little food he gets with anyone else around him in need.
The drug addict who grew up always being told they were unworthy, nothing and of no importance and no matter how hard they try and escape the lifestyle they can't break their internal dialogue which always tells them they are worthless and not meant for anything more from life. It seems that an uncaring, judgmental public usually backs it up.
Of course The Almighty can turn around people's lives in the most wonderous of ways, we hear stories of such everyday, some of us may know people who have done so or even have stories of our own but it is for some a long process. It is hard for those that hold no love for themselves to believe that God loves them so much that he can heal them.
That does not mean they do not love God.
It does not mean they are not believers.
It does not mean that their outward failure, their obvious sinful lifestyle will keep them out of Gods embrace and heavenly Kingdom.
I personally have spoken to both drug addicts and drunks who believe in Jesus, wholeheartedly. I pray that they heal and grow in faith to overcome their demons but far be it for me or anyone to say that these people are not saved.
You know I have also in past years known 'christians' who wear their faith very openly. Jesus loves you bumper stickers, church every Sunday, they partake in prayer vigils for the less fortunate, they donate to the church and ministries, they seem to be doing all the right things but yet I have heard the most judgmental things come out from their mouths.
Sure they will donate a whole heap of money to ministries and charities but yet mock the drunken bum, refuse to 'support' his sinful lifestyle not even considering to buy the poor bloke a sandwich and sit down and share some company and a smile or two with him. They will point out the prostitutes and drug addicts to their children and comment on how 'not to be, how this is how people live without God in their lives' never considering to teach their children empathy, compassion and love. To teach that although they have lost their way, we are all a reflection of God and we are never to exhalt ourselves above anyone.
Love and humilty cannot be so easily observed at times. Those that hold the most can be the very least of us.
