Evidence for God from Science

Oh atheists, teach me there is no God and I will be free.

Well, it's all to do with the default status of things you see. Things are by default free, you are a thing and therefore you are, by default, free.

Yrreg wrote:Oh atheists, teach me there is no God and I will be free.

Why is not believing in God going to make you free?

Ken

Yrreg wrote:Oh atheists, teach me there is no God and I will be free.

Are you free yet?

Yrreg wrote:Oh atheists, teach me there is no God and I will be free.

Who could resist such a charming and sincere invitation?

Yrreg wrote:Oh atheists, teach me there is no God and I will be free.

Free of what?

These Books God Made You're Mockin'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3gl1yj ... tml5=False

Well, free of SOMETHING since many atheist that leave a religion state, quite plainly, how free the feel or how free that are now.

PaulSacramento wrote:Well, free of SOMETHING since many atheist that leave a religion state, quite plainly, how free the feel or how free that are now.

Free when they leave religion, Luther no doubt experienced this himself after seeing the futility of being a monk.
Yet, he didn't throw out the baby with the water and experienced such freedom.
Throw out the dirty water, keep the baby.

What is freedom without God?
Freedom to live to self is thwarted by death.
A mirage perhaps, self-delusion, is any such freedom.

"Mirage" is a good word. If the statement "there is no God" is true, then we're probably affirming the statement "materialism is true." And in that case, determinism is true. And in that case, there's just no such thing as any kind of freedom at all.

Jac3510 wrote:"Mirage" is a good word. If the statement "there is no God" is true, then we're probably affirming the statement "materialism is true." And in that case, determinism is true. And in that case, there's just no such thing as any kind of freedom at all.

Sorry I fail to see how "in that case, determinism is true."
Mind elaborating?

PaulSacramento wrote:Well, free of SOMETHING since many atheist that leave a religion state, quite plainly, how free the feel or how free that are now.

What you describe isn't freedom but relief. Like the relief you feel after taking a laxative. Free of SOMETHING, as you say.

If the newly-relieved person doesn't change SOMETHING fundamental, the "constipation" will return.

My observation is valid in both the physical and psychological spheres.

IceMobster wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:"Mirage" is a good word. If the statement "there is no God" is true, then we're probably affirming the statement "materialism is true." And in that case, determinism is true. And in that case, there's just no such thing as any kind of freedom at all.

Sorry I fail to see how "in that case, determinism is true."
Mind elaborating?

I don't see how the connection isn't obvious. Determinism (more technically, Causal Determinism may be true under a wide range of views on the basic nature of reality--i.e., on substance dualism, determinism may be true or may be false; on idealism, determinism may be true or may be false, etc.--but assuming materialism (sometimes called Physicalism to help distinguish between this issue and a certain (related) issue called eliminative materialism in debates around the philosophy of the mind), then determinism must be true. The reason should be clear enough. If there is no immaterial reality, that is, if all that exists is matter and the forces acting upon it, then all effects whatsoever must be the result of interactions between that matter and the forces acting upon it. But since the only pool of possible causes for any given effect are non-volitional, material causes, then all causes are necessarily non-volitional, material causes.

Put a little more clearly, on strict materialism, all actions of any kind--including my "choice" of writing this post--are nothing more or less than the effects of chemical reactions in the brain. But no chemical, of course, ever sat back and pondered whether or not it would react with another element or not. So strict materialism has to insist that free will (even self-consciousness) is an illusion. All events are absolutely determined. This also goes hand in hand with a related idea called "material passivism," which we must necessarily embrace if we are to embrace materialism generally. Material passivism holds that matter itself is passive, inert, and only acts when acted upon by something else. But that means any change has to come from outside the matter, not from within it. And since, on materialism, all that exists is material, then there are no immaterial agents to "choose" to act upon matter. Ergo, determinism is true.

Hope that helps a bit.

IceMobster wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:"Mirage" is a good word. If the statement "there is no God" is true, then we're probably affirming the statement "materialism is true." And in that case, determinism is true. And in that case, there's just no such thing as any kind of freedom at all.

Sorry I fail to see how "in that case, determinism is true."
Mind elaborating?

Consider David Quinn and Dawkin's exchange on Determinsm
(about 8 minutes in it gets onto the determinism question)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7SfEXAQTkA

Does anyone other than some Christians pay any attention to what "Dawkins' says?

Never hear any non Christians quote him.