Evidence for God from Science

What do Atheists here personally think? (play the video)



Christians also aren't without sin here.
I think it's one thing to show the stupidity of someone's belief versus mocking and ridiculing them.
Sometimes the line is thin and we cross it. I have done it many times while debating, forgetting that there's a person on the other end.

But, we must always put in focus a love of the other person and use gentleness and respect. (1 Peter 3:15)
Yes, some out there are wolves and would love nothing more than to round us up and peg rocks, but we must be as innocent as doves wise as serpents. (Matt 10:16)

Let's see, did Jesus?

Matthew 23:13-29 and John 8:41-44
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Kurieuo wrote:Should people with stupid beliefs be mocked and ridiculed?

No, I don't think that people with "stupid" beliefs should be mocked and ridiculed. I think that people deserve to be treated courteously, regardless of what they believe. However, I don't accept the argument that any belief should be granted some special status simply because it's widely held, sincerely felt, traditionally accepted, or backed by some holy text. I see nothing wrong with challenging someones' beliefs, but it has to be in the right place at the right time and there's no reason to be a jerk about it.

Now that I think about it, though, there's one caveat. If you go out in public and start pushing your beliefs on the rest of us then you're fair game. I'll still try to be courteous, but if you're spewing idiocy in the streets I'll call you on it and if you wind up looking stupid that's not my problem.

edwardmurphy wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Should people with stupid beliefs be mocked and ridiculed?

No, I don't think that people with "stupid" beliefs should be mocked and ridiculed. I think that people deserve to be treated courteously, regardless of what they believe. However, I don't accept the argument that any belief should be granted some special status simply because it's widely held, sincerely felt, traditionally accepted, or backed by some holy text. I see nothing wrong with challenging someones' beliefs, but it has to be in the right place at the right time and there's no reason to be a jerk about it.

Now that I think about it, though, there's one caveat. If you go out in public and start pushing your beliefs on the rest of us then you're fair game. I'll still try to be courteous, but if you're spewing idiocy in the streets I'll call you on it and if you wind up looking stupid that's not my problem.

So it is perfectly acceptable for you to push your beliefs upon the rest of us, then?

Welcome to the forum...
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B. W. wrote:So it is perfectly acceptable for you to push your beliefs upon the rest of us, then?

Welcome to the forum...
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I'm in a forum called "Questioning non-belief" answering a question that was specifically posed to atheists.

It seems appropriate...

B. W. wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Should people with stupid beliefs be mocked and ridiculed?

No, I don't think that people with "stupid" beliefs should be mocked and ridiculed. I think that people deserve to be treated courteously, regardless of what they believe. However, I don't accept the argument that any belief should be granted some special status simply because it's widely held, sincerely felt, traditionally accepted, or backed by some holy text. I see nothing wrong with challenging someones' beliefs, but it has to be in the right place at the right time and there's no reason to be a jerk about it.

Now that I think about it, though, there's one caveat. If you go out in public and start pushing your beliefs on the rest of us then you're fair game. I'll still try to be courteous, but if you're spewing idiocy in the streets I'll call you on it and if you wind up looking stupid that's not my problem.

So it is perfectly acceptable for you to push your beliefs upon the rest of us, then?

Welcome to the forum...
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i dont think it was his intent to push his beliefs onto the rest of us but just stating what he believes.

edwardmurphy wrote:

B. W. wrote:So it is perfectly acceptable for you to push your beliefs upon the rest of us, then?

Welcome to the forum...

I'm in a forum called "Questioning non-belief" answering a question that was specifically posed to atheists.

It seems appropriate...

It is...

From the Christian perspective bore out by empirical facts - militant atheists are the ones pushing their system down everyone's throat. Have you considered that?

When was the last time a Christian forced you by implementing law to go to church?

When was the last time Atheism forced Christians, by law and judicial fiat, media ridicule and mocking, to be silent, remove Nativity scenes, remove prayer, remove the Ten Commandments, destroy christian businesses and character assassinate Christians, to just shut up and go away as irrelevant lower class sub-human beings?

See the irony?

Yes, both sides can be stupid when responding to each other as K stated in the original post because sides forget there are human beings with value at the other end. However, one side has a nefarious purpose and uses ridicule and mocking, and laws, to silence the other.

Again, all this was foretold thousands of years ago first beginning sometime after the second regathering of the Jewish people into their homeland mentioned in Isaiah 11:11,12 and from there leading up to this mentioned in 2 Tim 3:1,2,3,4
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When was the last time Atheism forced Christians, by law and judicial fiat, media ridicule and mocking, to be silent, remove Nativity scenes, remove prayer, remove the Ten Commandments, destroy christian businesses and character assassinate Christians, to just shut up and go away as irrelevant lower class sub-human beings?

Hey, cut it out... we resemble that remark ...

See the irony?

I believe I do !

and if you wind up looking stupid that's not my problem.

welcome to the forum ...

edwardmurphy wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Should people with stupid beliefs be mocked and ridiculed?

No, I don't think that people with "stupid" beliefs should be mocked and ridiculed. I think that people deserve to be treated courteously, regardless of what they believe. However, I don't accept the argument that any belief should be granted some special status simply because it's widely held, sincerely felt, traditionally accepted, or backed by some holy text. I see nothing wrong with challenging someones' beliefs, but it has to be in the right place at the right time and there's no reason to be a jerk about it.

Now that I think about it, though, there's one caveat. If you go out in public and start pushing your beliefs on the rest of us then you're fair game. I'll still try to be courteous, but if you're spewing idiocy in the streets I'll call you on it and if you wind up looking stupid that's not my problem.

Welcome to the board.
I've never witnessed Christians spewing idiocy, but I hear Atheist/Atheist-leaning people tell me it happens.
I think it's exaggerated personally. Pushing beliefs onto people. Free speech gives and takes.
But if someone is spewing idiocy, that last thing I'd want to do is participate.

What Dawkins endorses in that video is border-line hate-speech and deserves a slap in the face.
He's said some quite stupid comments that have made him look foolish,

As an aside, forget the streets. I personally have a distaste for door knockers.
Those I have experienced. Actually have a JW regularly visit.
Not quite sure why as never goes anywhere really.

B. W. wrote:From the Christian perspective bore out by empirical facts - militant atheists are the ones pushing their system down everyone's throat. Have you considered that?

Can you give me some examples?

B. W. wrote:When was the last time a Christian forced you by implementing law to go to church?

Never. When was the last time an atheist made a law preventing you from going to church? For that matter, when was the last time an atheist made a law of any kind?

B. W. wrote:When was the last time Atheism forced Christians, by law and judicial fiat, media ridicule and mocking, to be silent, remove Nativity scenes, remove prayer, remove the Ten Commandments, destroy christian businesses and character assassinate Christians, to just shut up and go away as irrelevant lower class sub-human beings?

Again, can I get some examples? Last time I looked the United States was about 80% Christian, with overwhelmingly Christian legislatures in every state and at the Federal level, at east 45/50 Christian governors, an overwhelmingly Christian Supreme Court, and an unbroken string of Christian presidents going all the way back to the the dawn of the Republic. How exactly is it that a small, disorganized minority with no political power is slapping Christians around like that?

B. W. wrote:See the irony?

No.

B. W. wrote:Yes, both sides can be stupid when responding to each other as K stated in the original post because sides forget there are human beings with value at the other end. However, one side has a nefarious purpose and uses ridicule and mocking, and laws, to silence the other.

Can you please explain what that nefarious purpose is and give me some examples of the ridicule, mocking, and most importantly, laws being used to silence the politically dominant 80%?

80%? Wow, I might move to the US.

Kurieuo wrote:80%? Wow, I might move to the US.

Not quite 80% K.

And edwardmurphy is a little biased on his info here too:

Again, can I get some examples? Last time I looked the United States was about 80% Christian, with overwhelmingly Christian legislatures in every state and at the Federal level, at east 45/50 Christian governors, an overwhelmingly Christian Supreme Court, and an unbroken string of Christian presidents going all the way back to the the dawn of the Republic. How exactly is it that a small, disorganized minority with no political power is slapping Christians around like that?

Unbroken string of Christian presidents?

Many of the founding fathers, including presidents, were deists or theists. Certainly not Christians as we define a Christian.

And the Supreme Court has 3 Jews, and 6 Catholics. The same Supreme Court that just passed the law that redefined marriage, to mean whoever the hell wants to get married, can.

The problem with atheists is that they very broadly define what it is to be Christian.
Certainly not how you or I define a Christian.

Maybe, 80 % of Americans believe in God. Maybe. 80% Christian? Not a chance.

edwardmurphy wrote:

B. W. wrote:From the Christian perspective bore out by empirical facts - militant atheists are the ones pushing their system down everyone's throat. Have you considered that?

Can you give me some examples?

In the USA, just look on line and you will find plenty from the battle against Naivety scenes, prayer in public, and atheist runs over a Ten Commandment monument in Oklahoma to the court ruling its removal, hostility form the USA public education system against Christianity, to the outlawing of privet citizens from holding bible studies at home – zoning laws. The 501 3 C tax code which denies ministers the right to endorse candidates running for office or lose tax exempt status thus disfranchising Christians ability to rally politically.

I recall in my upper division Social work class at Colorado State University the professor asking all the Christians in the class to stand up and come to the front of the class. Which we did, about 10 of us out of a class of 32. He them lambasted us yelling things like how dare you tell the rest of us how to live… you are a miniscule outdated minority, worthless, etc and etc… He excoriated all of us on the second day of the class in front of the others. Most sat in disbelief this was America and a few joined in mocked.

Later I went to him according to CSU policy and told that was inappropriate and that several of the women left the class in tears at being humiliated in public. He sneered. I then filed a complaint of discrimination with the department. It was ignored. So don’t tell me it does not exist. As Christians we are called to defend the weak and that defense comes in a wide array of applications. Christians are not pansies. That event and the later one in System Theory was enough to see the clear vitriol unjustified hate some folks have against Christians – as the rant in K’s video shows… is real and experienced.

Now in othr countries, those folks can add their examples if they like…

edwardmurphy wrote:

B. W. wrote:When was the last time a Christian forced you by implementing law to go to church?

Never. When was the last time an atheist made a law preventing you from going to church? For that matter, when was the last time an atheist made a law of any kind?

http://ffrf.org/outreach/item/14019-rel ... c-property

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/to ... study.html

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/author ... tian-faith

edwardmurphy wrote:

B. W. wrote:When was the last time Atheism forced Christians, by law and judicial fiat, media ridicule and mocking, to be silent, remove Nativity scenes, remove prayer, remove the Ten Commandments, destroy christian businesses and character assassinate Christians, to just shut up and go away as irrelevant lower class sub-human beings?

Again, can I get some examples? Last time I looked the United States was about 80% Christian, with overwhelmingly Christian legislatures in every state and at the Federal level, at east 45/50 Christian governors, an overwhelmingly Christian Supreme Court, and an unbroken string of Christian presidents going all the way back to the the dawn of the Republic. How exactly is it that a small, disorganized minority with no political power is slapping Christians around like that?

Search the internet – gave a few above… and one from the FFRF too…

Here are a few more –

http://aclj.org/news

http://aclj.org/petitions

edwardmurphy wrote:

B. W. wrote:See the irony?

No.

We do…

edwardmurphy wrote:

B. W. wrote:Yes, both sides can be stupid when responding to each other as K stated in the original post because sides forget there are human beings with value at the other end. However, one side has a nefarious purpose and uses ridicule and mocking, and laws, to silence the other.

Can you please explain what that nefarious purpose is and give me some examples of the ridicule, mocking, and most importantly, laws being used to silence the politically dominant 80%?

RickD answered this well and again. How many folks in your neighborhood go to church? It is not 80 percent is it?

Think of it, edwardmurphy...and tell us...

Why is it a crime… To Remember the Sabbath day(a day of rest)?

Why is it a crime… to honor your father and your mother?

Why is it a crime… not to murder?

Why is it a crime… not to commit adultery?

Why is it a crime… not to steal?

Why is it a crime… to not bear false witness against your neighbor?

Why is it a crime… not to covet?

Why is it a crime...to no other gods before YHWH?

Why is it a crime... not to make idols out of things or people?

Why is it a crime... not take the name of the LORD your God in vain?

I believe mocking and ridiculing is a sign of weakness and it covers up the lack of evidence or weak reasons to believe what they do,so they mock instead.This is the main reason atheists do it,it is to cover up their lack of real evidence bit I detect that less and less atheists are mocking people like they use to and I also notice that they are defending evolution less and less when on line or the internet like they used to.

As for believers I don't believe it is good to mock or ridicule however I believe Christians should confront and discuss issues and interpretations that they disagree with or that they think are bad teaching,however when this is done both parties must be willing to have scripture to back there self up and both should be willing to admit it if they are wrong according to the word of God or else it will do no good to discuss different interpretations and beliefs.

RickD wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:80%? Wow, I might move to the US.

Not quite 80% K.

And edwardmurphy is a little biased on his info here too:

Again, can I get some examples? Last time I looked the United States was about 80% Christian, with overwhelmingly Christian legislatures in every state and at the Federal level, at east 45/50 Christian governors, an overwhelmingly Christian Supreme Court, and an unbroken string of Christian presidents going all the way back to the the dawn of the Republic. How exactly is it that a small, disorganized minority with no political power is slapping Christians around like that?

Unbroken string of Christian presidents?

Many of the founding fathers, including presidents, were deists or theists. Certainly not Christians as we define a Christian.

And the Supreme Court has 3 Jews, and 6 Catholics. The same Supreme Court that just passed the law that redefined marriage, to mean whoever the hell wants to get married, can.

The problem with atheists is that they very broadly define what it is to be Christian.
Certainly not how you or I define a Christian.

Maybe, 80 % of Americans believe in God. Maybe. 80% Christian? Not a chance.

Yes, I figured something was suspect.

Because when I look around, hear the news, see the US government, the philosophies that have seeped down, etc.
The US appears to me to be quite secularised. And Australian follows suite and tries to take the lead on certain things.