Evidence for God from Science

I know that the human brain is a wonderful, really complex "machine", to the point that is seems to have been designed. However, it also seems not to have been designed, as it is flawed to a point that it is almost laughable!

As in...God is supposed to have created us in this flawed world so He could test us. However, our "character" seems to be extremely molded by our brain. There are several cases in which our brain completely surpasses our character, Stockholm Syndrome being one of the most ridiculous. The fact that our brain can take such control on us to the point of manipulating our idea on who is the villain and who is the hero is just absurd. Unless, of course, we assume that our character is not important...

Then there are much more cases. Mr. Deem has already talked about sociopathy (although he didn't really explain why on earth would an intelligent God allow sociopathy to happen in the first place...), but...then there's Alzheimer, Alien Hand Syndrome, Chimerism, Bipolar disorder. sleepwalking, lucid dreaming...and of course, the ever-popular Phineas Gage case (http://bigpictureeducation.com/brain-ca ... ineas-gage). To which Mr. Deem never gave an explanation, by the way. The Phineas Gage case is such a strong proof against our possibility to control our own character (our against the soul thing) that any religious website with no explanation for Gage will always be incomplete. For me, at least...

Actually, only the idea that manipulating someone's character is so easy seems to make this whole test extremely flawed. Look how easy it is to change someone's character. All you need is a sedative, a scalpel...and you just obliterated a part of that person's character. The fact that any person can just "cut" the character out of someone is just...ah, I can't even describe it. It just doesn't seem like something that an intelligent God with the purporse of testing our character would do.

Thoughts?

I know several cars that have rusted parts. That doesn't mean they were designed to rust.

Here is a good question. Is there an ideal way a brain SHOULD operate? Or, how do we measure a 'good' brain versus a 'bad' one? How would you make the claim that altering the brain to destroy character is a defect unless there is a way the brain OUGHT to be functioning in the first place.

MBPrata wrote:I know that the human brain is a wonderful, really complex "machine", to the point that is seems to have been designed. However, it also seems not to have been designed, as it is flawed to a point that it is almost laughable!

As in...God is supposed to have created us in this flawed world so He could test us. However, our "character" seems to be extremely molded by our brain. There are several cases in which our brain completely surpasses our character, Stockholm Syndrome being one of the most ridiculous. The fact that our brain can take such control on us to the point of manipulating our idea on who is the villain and who is the hero is just absurd. Unless, of course, we assume that our character is not important...

Then there are much more cases. Mr. Deem has already talked about sociopathy (although he didn't really explain why on earth would an intelligent God allow sociopathy to happen in the first place...), but...then there's Alzheimer, Alien Hand Syndrome, Chimerism, Bipolar disorder. sleepwalking, lucid dreaming...and of course, the ever-popular Phineas Gage case (http://bigpictureeducation.com/brain-ca ... ineas-gage). To which Mr. Deem never gave an explanation, by the way. The Phineas Gage case is such a strong proof against our possibility to control our own character (our against the soul thing) that any religious website with no explanation for Gage will always be incomplete. For me, at least...

Actually, only the idea that manipulating someone's character is so easy seems to make this whole test extremely flawed. Look how easy it is to change someone's character. All you need is a sedative, a scalpel...and you just obliterated a part of that person's character. The fact that any person can just "cut" the character out of someone is just...ah, I can't even describe it. It just doesn't seem like something that an intelligent God with the purporse of testing our character would do.

Thoughts?

Flawed compare to what?
Flawed based on what?
Where did you get the idea it was "designed"? much less that it should be somehow "perfect" ??

I think we each have a fundamental 'me' which is our soul and which can be changed somewhat by normal circumstances, and I suppose could be dramatically changed by brain injury and so on. We are stuck in these physical bodies for this life and as we live in an imperfect world all parts of our bodies can be affected for the worse by outside influences. I think if we trust in God though we'll receive in the life to come our characters as they were meant to be but, more than that, perfected (as there will be no more sin) and our bodies glorified and no longer affected by any injuries. None of us has a perfect character in this life but I believe we're nearly all still capable of knowing God.

I know several cars that have rusted parts. That doesn't mean they were designed to rust.

True. But the fact that our brain can "rust" sort of avoids the whole your-character-is-being-tested thing. I mean, God is omnipotent, so He can create this world's rules in any way. Why wouldn't He make our brain made of a "material" which could not "rust", thus elimating the parts in which are not we, just our brain activity?

Flawed based on what?

Based on the "fact" that God wants to test our character. Allowing our brain to suppress our own character is something that prevents the test itself. For some time, at least?

Where did you get the idea it was "designed"?

Well, when christians claim that God designed the human body, I assume they're also talking about the inside...

much less that it should be somehow "perfect" ??

Huh...I never stated the human brain should be perfect. Leaving our "soul" alone would be enough.

Given a choice, I'd rather take the "good" brains most of us are born with - if we'd only use the brain God gave us!

But you never know what you're gonna get.






















Dr. Frankenstein: Now... that brain that you gave me... was it Hans Delbruck's?

Igor: [Crosses arms] No.

Dr. Frankenstein: [Holds up hand] Ah. Good. Uh... would you mind telling me... whose brain... I did put in?

Igor: And you won't be angry?

Dr. Frankenstein: I will not be angry.

Igor: [Shrugs] Abby...someone.

Dr. Frankenstein: Abby someone? Abby who?

Igor: Abby Normal.

Dr. Frankenstein: [takes a deep breath] Abby Normal?

Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name. [He and Dr. Frankenstein laugh]

Dr. Frankenstein: Are you saying... [Stands] that I put an abnormal brain... [Puts hand on Igor's hump] into a 7 and a half foot long... 54- inch wide... [Grabs Igor by throat] GORILLA?!?!?! [Strangling Igor] IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME!?!

OP: Then there are much more cases. Mr. Deem has already talked about sociopathy (although he didn't really explain why on earth would an intelligent God allow sociopathy to happen in the first place...), but...then there's Alzheimer, Alien Hand Syndrome, Chimerism, Bipolar disorder. sleepwalking, lucid dreaming...and of course, the ever-popular Phineas Gage case (http://bigpictureeducation.com/brain-ca ... ineas-gage). To which Mr. Deem never gave an explanation, by the way. The Phineas Gage case is such a strong proof against our possibility to control our own character (our against the soul thing) that any religious website with no explanation for Gage will always be incomplete. For me, at least...

Seriously, you are going to use various forms of illness and people under extreme duress to make your case? Sin has impacted the world - it's impact is inescapable and incalculable. But God was always prepared for it. I would say He most definitely takes into account people with malfunctioning minds and illness. He holds us accountable for what we CAN understand and do, not for what we cannot. He is a God of Mercy and grace!

And as for the OP's analysis that an intelligent God would not have allowed what we observe on earth - well, did he use his flawed, sinful and mortal-limited brain to deduce such?

MBPrata wrote:

I know several cars that have rusted parts. That doesn't mean they were designed to rust.

True. But the fact that our brain can "rust" sort of avoids the whole your-character-is-being-tested thing. I mean, God is omnipotent, so He can create this world's rules in any way. Why wouldn't He make our brain made of a "material" which could not "rust", thus elimating the parts in which are not we, just our brain activity?

Flawed based on what?

Based on the "fact" that God wants to test our character. Allowing our brain to suppress our own character is something that prevents the test itself. For some time, at least?

Where did you get the idea it was "designed"?

Well, when christians claim that God designed the human body, I assume they're also talking about the inside...

much less that it should be somehow "perfect" ??

Huh...I never stated the human brain should be perfect. Leaving our "soul" alone would be enough.

Seems like you are looking for issues where there truly aren't any.

I'm not really sure whether God sets out to test our characters. He certainly doesn't test them to decide whether we'll go to heaven or not - that's not based on character but on faith. I'm pretty sure God knows us inside out and knows what we're going to do, so has no need to test us like a scientist.

Nicki wrote:I'm not really sure whether God sets out to test our characters. He certainly doesn't test them to decide whether we'll go to heaven or not - that's not based on character but on faith. I'm pretty sure God knows us inside out and knows what we're going to do, so has no need to test us like a scientist.

God tests no one.
We test our faith by going against what we know to be right, ie: temptation.

God allows us to be tested but the test is not for Him, but for Us.

And as for the OP's analysis that an intelligent God would not have allowed what we observe on earth - well, did he use his flawed, sinful and mortal-limited brain to deduce such?

Of course he did; his brain is the only "tool" with which he can analyse, like...anything that exists! If you don't think we can trust our brain's analysis because our brain is flawed, sinful and mortal-limited, then all rational thoughts mr. Deem posted on this website are just pointless...

Seems like you are looking for issues where there truly aren't any.

Oh, I wish I was. But I don't "look" for these issues; they come to me. Sometimes, I'm calmly watching a Dr. House episode and I learn about a medical condition that just doesn't seem consistant with the idea that God designed this universe to "provide a place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or reject God". Crumbs, I'm not watching TV in order to find issues on God's logic; I just want to watch a TV show which makes me laugh!

Just an example...

MBPrata wrote:

And as for the OP's analysis that an intelligent God would not have allowed what we observe on earth - well, did he use his flawed, sinful and mortal-limited brain to deduce such?

Of course he did; his brain is the only "tool" with which he can analyse, like...anything that exists! If you don't think we can trust our brain's analysis because our brain is flawed, sinful and mortal-limited, then all rational thoughts mr. Deem posted on this website are just pointless...

Seems like you are looking for issues where there truly aren't any.

Oh, I wish I was. But I don't "look" for these issues; they come to me. Sometimes, I'm calmly watching a Dr. House episode and I learn about a medical condition that just doesn't seem consistant with the idea that God designed this universe to "provide a place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or reject God". Crumbs, I'm not watching TV in order to find issues on God's logic; I just want to watch a TV show which makes me laugh!

Just an example...

First off, and this is from some one that is NOT a proponent of the "intelligent design" view, anything that is designed is design for a specific function and as long as it does that function ( and you know what that function truly is) then it is "good enough".

The realist is that, IF God exists then everything else related to God is true to, and that includes that fact that THIS mode of existence is temporary and NOT the final "evolution" of mankind.
In that context, we are the way we need to be to get from HERE to THERE.